tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post2301572664135178545..comments2024-02-24T06:10:42.255-08:00Comments on Congo Siasa: Peace vs. Justice: Kate Cronin-FurmanJason Stearnshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11454449854081540397noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-73570901734317846802010-11-07T05:59:10.526-08:002010-11-07T05:59:10.526-08:00Kate thank you very much for this article.I lived ...Kate thank you very much for this article.I lived in DRCfrom Bukavu-Kibumba-Mugunga-Sake-Kibabi-Walikale-Amisi-Tingitingi-Lubutu-Kisangani-Ubundu-Boende-Ikella-Mbandaka-Congo Brazaville.all this journey it was flying red bullets and bombs-we left Rwanda as a family of 200 people but as we speak there is only three people left:One is me writing to you,another two are still surviving in the Congo forest.He killed some of us I remember seeing my dad being burnt alive together with my two siblings in Kisangani near the hospital they were killed not because they were fighting Kagame but simply they were Hutus,,,my mother was pregnant and her with her baby put in Lubutu river in early March 1997. So who is saying there is no evidence that Kagame killed more Hutus that the Tutsis he claim to protect? Now Kagame has sent a committee of propagandists like Rose Kabuye to go to the western countries to discredit the UN Mapping report why should he fear the report if he things they are no evidence?men ,you who say that Kagame should not face justice you do not understand how much 80% of Rwandans are yearning for it. I thank Kate for bringing this issue up again because America support a justice of the American interest not about justice otherwise there would be no way that Clinton would be busy sanctifying a killer like Kagame.It took a month to establish ICTR Arusha and yet the evidence showed that Kagame was to be prosecuted by ICTR Arusha but USA refused it to happen and sacked the prosecutor Del Carl Ponte because she had evidence to prosecute Kagame in the wrongful death of many Rwandans including two Hutu presidents Habyarimana and Ntaryamira but where is justice?<br /><br />If anyone want to see Rwandans both Hutus and Tutsis together without any threat of conflict, he/she must establish a true justice mechanism that will establish the root causes of all this. <br /><br />Ingabire Victoire is in jail simply because she publicly showed interest of establish a new Rwanda that exists by the law but where is USA and UK?If it was somewhere else like in China,Sudan, or Iran America would be shouting from the top of the tree saying" there is no freedom of expression" but look at us Rwandans now because it is Kagame killing and imprisoning Hutus,USA government does not care,why?because they are Africans....<br /><br />I am a genocide survivor who want to see all Rwandans living together in harmony no one is harassed because of her or his ethnic background.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08912494335846493682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-33835451164855392962010-10-21T17:46:17.512-07:002010-10-21T17:46:17.512-07:00Anyone who feels threatened by a prosecutorial mec...Anyone who feels threatened by a prosecutorial mechanism.Kate Cronin-Furmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04864058969508856480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-91908664397632641222010-10-21T17:29:49.125-07:002010-10-21T17:29:49.125-07:00"The idea is that it might negatively affect ..."The idea is that it might negatively affect incentives to disarm/demobilize for these actors, not that it would necessarily provide an independent source of conflict."<br /><br />Which actors?Nkundahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082281582678434598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-27777854778249937352010-10-21T11:46:58.040-07:002010-10-21T11:46:58.040-07:00ColoredOpinions,
The idea is that it might negati...ColoredOpinions,<br /><br />The idea is that it might negatively affect incentives to disarm/demobilize for these actors, not that it would necessarily provide an independent source of conflict.Kate Cronin-Furmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04864058969508856480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-14265902942931044212010-10-21T08:40:28.647-07:002010-10-21T08:40:28.647-07:00Who would potentially destabilize the great lakes ...Who would potentially destabilize the great lakes region because of this and how? The FDLR, the CNDP, Kabila, elements within the Congolese army, Kagame? The Rwandan opposition parties? Internal opposition within the RPF? I don't see any likely candidate.Colored Opinionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17172030328954992750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-56884025928056906572010-10-20T14:40:45.283-07:002010-10-20T14:40:45.283-07:00"As for your second question, of course we al..."As for your second question, of course we all want both peace and justice for the eastern DRC, the question is whether pushing for justice now harms/delays the chances for peace."<br /><br />Kate, in the context of eastern DRC what peace are we talking about? Also, with the ICTR in Rwanda, would we say that the court has harmed "chances for peace." I do think that, the ICTR has played a crucial though controversial role in deterring future violence. I believe this is the same argument that Jason alludes to.<br /><br />So, yes, we need justice and perpetrators of crimes need to be brought to account. A peace built on impunity, where yesterdays criminals becomes today's leaders, is not sustainable. Already, you can see that with Burundi!Nkundahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082281582678434598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-41855629343764942212010-10-20T12:08:35.665-07:002010-10-20T12:08:35.665-07:00Hi Ari,
Thanks for chiming in!
Yes, there'...Hi Ari,<br /><br />Thanks for chiming in! <br /><br />Yes, there's a lot of work being done on this topic, but we're still a long way from being able to say anything conclusive about the effects of int'l war crimes trials. (My recollection is that the Kim & Sikkink does not attempt to separate out an effect of international vs. domestic prosecutions, but correct me if I'm wrong about that.) <br /><br />Looks like the Olsen, Payne, & Reiter book came out over the summer - I'll be interested to see where they come down on these issues.Kate Cronin-Furmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04864058969508856480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-88709197518054540062010-10-20T11:18:00.508-07:002010-10-20T11:18:00.508-07:00All interesting arguments. I'm left to wonder ...All interesting arguments. I'm left to wonder to what extent do Congolese communities get consulted on how they think these issues should be dealt with. Seems these discussions, as most discussions on the DRC, take place predominantly among Westerners (sometimes with the Congo government putting in its two cents). Congolese themselves never appear to have their own agency recognized. There are other, less foreign, justice and conflict resolution mechanisms than these tribunal models based on Western traditions of jurisprudence. So. How do communities feel this stuff should be dealt with, is it viable, and how do you work with or around that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-7145430177523538972010-10-20T06:28:28.265-07:002010-10-20T06:28:28.265-07:00Kate,
As I'm sure you know, some academics ar...Kate,<br /><br />As I'm sure you know, some academics are working on studying the evidence question that you raise here. It's a tough nut to crack, but there's a piece by Kim and Sikkink that I talked a bit about last year:<br /><br />http://kohenari.tumblr.com/post/306416944<br /><br />It has its methodological problems, to be sure, but it's not the only one out there. There's work by Payne, Olsen, and Reiter, as well my work being done by my colleague at Nebraska, Patrice McMahon (all of which, to my knowledge, is still forthcoming, though some might already be available online).<br /><br />The findings are something of a mixed bag. Payne, Olsen, and Reiter -- I think -- are going to challenge the efficacy of these transitional justice mechanisms; Kim and Sikkink argue that they're having an effect. McMahon, in what I've read, wants to challenge what you've argued here about the ICTY and Serbia (though there are so many variables that I think it's likely going to require a good deal of work to untangle things).<br /><br />But, anyhow, it's a question that people *are* trying to address.AKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430960212572460945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-71762766463810700382010-10-20T06:20:27.349-07:002010-10-20T06:20:27.349-07:00If you're asking how much say victims and surv...If you're asking how much say victims and survivors *should* have, I think most of us would agree that the answer is "a lot." <br /><br />If you're asking how much they currently *do* have, it's hard to say. There's a large enough victim community and enough diversity of opinion that you can claim support of victims' groups for pretty much any position on the peace vs. justice spectrum.<br /><br />As for your second question, of course we all want both peace and justice for the eastern DRC, the question is whether pushing for justice now harms/delays the chances for peace.Kate Cronin-Furmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04864058969508856480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-17020884628308753392010-10-20T06:04:01.135-07:002010-10-20T06:04:01.135-07:00How much say do victims and survivors of these cri...How much say do victims and survivors of these crimes have? What if they think some form of legal action and acknowledgment of the crimes is necessary for them to heal?<br /><br />Some regions in eastern congo have neither peace nor justice. Can we attain both?Nkundahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082281582678434598noreply@blogger.com