tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post715330332728473254..comments2024-02-24T06:10:42.255-08:00Comments on Congo Siasa: Op-Ed: Stability vs. transparencyJason Stearnshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11454449854081540397noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-79080261440841266822011-12-07T04:33:11.098-08:002011-12-07T04:33:11.098-08:00@ Vincent Harris: its not the first time, and sadl...@ Vincent Harris: its not the first time, and sadly not the last, that a supposedly scientific work is used to justify political objectives. Rich could have started by saying that he is a proud Katangan (which I assume he is, based on his surname) and a staunch Kabila supporter for tribal reasons or economic ones, or any other reason.<br />If Rich reads this, I am also based in the United Kingdom (London) and will be more than happy to read your findings. I am happy to offer suggestions and ideas.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-78370770699942126292011-12-07T03:53:22.598-08:002011-12-07T03:53:22.598-08:00But more likely Rich is Richard Kapend who gives a...But more likely Rich is Richard Kapend who gives a presentation on " The demography of armed conflict: reconstructing demographic estimates before, during and in the aftermath of the 1998 – 2004 D. R. Congo armed conflict" today.Vincent Harrishttp://coloredopinions.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-65641926012127488752011-12-06T23:44:05.092-08:002011-12-06T23:44:05.092-08:00I totally agree that its time CENI published the r...I totally agree that its time CENI published the results as per polling station and i'm certain all the candidates will have no choice but to accept the results whoever becomes the eventual winner.<br /><br />Mwafrika.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-61274345962545345722011-12-06T23:35:49.554-08:002011-12-06T23:35:49.554-08:00@WTT : You don't need 6 hours to figure out wh...@WTT : You don't need 6 hours to figure out what the solutions are. As I have been labelled a Tshisekedi supporter (by Rich) I will point out a few ideas to defuse the tension:<br />- delay results annoucements<br />- create a forum including opposition parties and J Kabila's camp to compare reluts of each camp<br />- publish only resulsta that have been agreed and find a consensus on the troubling votes....if any<br />Th only problem at this point is: CENI is unable or unwilling to publish results polling station by polling station as demanded by the Congolese clergy and Susan Rice.<br />Surely if you can give 2 743 000 votes in Katanga, you should be able to give a breakdown of your numbers ?<br />The opposition won't have any arguments left if the official tally (CENI) matches the one compiled by the opposition, civil society.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-10702250857640231992011-12-06T15:11:39.745-08:002011-12-06T15:11:39.745-08:00Its interesting to see that everyone has an opinio...Its interesting to see that everyone has an opinion for everything. People are bringing in facts from a decade ago to wikipedia to raw data, but what are we really doing? What the fruits? Instead of pointing out facts and where the leaks are- we should probably base our efforts and energy toward figuring out a solutions. It easy to sit in a front of PC for hours, and write about impressions we have because we believe that those are the best solutions to the Congolese problems. What about spending 60 second on what the problem is instead of 6 hour of figuring out how to fix it.WTTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-59657297180950081352011-12-06T12:42:13.560-08:002011-12-06T12:42:13.560-08:00I will second that, I have never read anything fro...I will second that, I have never read anything from him condemning JK's regime, human right violations,embezlements,Bosco Tangana's situation, Kunda's situation and so many more cases of bad governance and abuses.His main beef is with ET's words directed to Congolese to help them conquer their fears of this repressive regime. His brother is running for office in Likasi in the Katanga,he said, this might be the clue to his hatred of ET.<br /><br />BismarkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-51925713644958104262011-12-06T12:38:04.505-08:002011-12-06T12:38:04.505-08:00Maybe we losing focus in between the name calling ...Maybe we losing focus in between the name calling and bravado being displayed by some of the contributors.<br /><br />The issue here is the current elections and to be more precise the irresponsible and reckless way the tallying of votes is being done and handled.<br /><br />But then i could be wrong....<br /><br />MwafrikaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-78294455257092882902011-12-06T12:16:39.517-08:002011-12-06T12:16:39.517-08:00Based on his last comment I would say Rich is Kabi...Based on his last comment I would say Rich is Kabila's Special Adviser and UNFPA Representative Richard Dackam.Vincent Harrishttp://coloredopinions.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-30463940934212280522011-12-06T10:25:24.700-08:002011-12-06T10:25:24.700-08:00Check it out, see if we are talking from the same ...Check it out, see if we are talking from the same standpoint. Between the lines, it is says that even if Kabila got re-elected this time and no major crisis unfold, he ought to take bold initiatives and respond accordingly to the level of political contention raised by the opposition. Equally the opposition needs to decide if they use the street as the lone strategy and stay in the streets or move in the real political arena. Actually the UPDS would be better off to be present in the Parliament after such a long abscence in the coutry decision process and management to prepare 2016. If they miss this time again, their credibility already questioned will be wiped out for ever. Unless it is uncertain that UDPS cannot survive Tshisekedi, and is being just a structure to lift him to the state power? <br /><br />I did not intentionally work out the other alternatives to suggest major crisis. If this happen, let us pray that Congolese spirit and ingeniousness will confront at the least human cost..and spare Africa of a huge embarrassment. <br /><br />The international or donor community cannot just pull out or blackmail Congolese people who had suffered and given a lot to the World development as per the abundant documents or historical facts. Anyway the events are unfolding or moving very quickly: 1. Bill Richardson is in Kinshasa from what message or mediation? - days will tell! and 2. possibility of final results announcement being delayed- what interpretation and consequence. This is going to be a 24h feedback<br /><br />RogersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-62726036913176292372011-12-06T10:21:34.113-08:002011-12-06T10:21:34.113-08:00I can't believe the level of arrogance and sel...I can't believe the level of arrogance and self-sufficiancy some of you are demonstrating here.Such cynicism is just beyond comprehension. <br /> This probably explains why the diaspora is up in harms, with some even demonstrating naked to show how they've been stripped of all dignity by the current regime and their supporters. By the way Jason, looking forward to reading you soon. Many thanks for this well-balanced, factual and empathetic piece. <br />LusambaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-48544558162711527632011-12-06T09:47:47.756-08:002011-12-06T09:47:47.756-08:00While the prospect of massive post-election upheav...While the prospect of massive post-election upheaval is dire, one (more peripheral) dynamic that hasn't been publicly discussed or acknowledged at all is the prospect that such instability will make northern Congo a safe-haven for the LRA. Kabila has more or less booted the UPDF for the time-being (most saw it as pre-election politicking that can be reversed once things settle down) and FARDC are totally incapable of dealing with the LRA themselves (and continue to pretend that the problem doesn't exist).M Poffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15192553645373647367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-63919448854135171012011-12-06T07:37:54.165-08:002011-12-06T07:37:54.165-08:00@ anonymous
you say: "Irresponsible, dangerou...@ anonymous<br />you say: "Irresponsible, dangerous demagogue, leader of a sect of extremists, unstable, unreliable, unpredictable....these are the very adjectives that were used by the West and Western journalists in 1960 to undermine and discredit Patrice Lumumba. Interestingly (like Tshisekedi), he was popular with the Congolese people and not so much with the outside world, who preferred Mobutu.....we all know how much damage his destructive leadership did to the Congo, with the silent approval of the West."<br /><br />To compare Tshisekedi to lumumba is what Mobutu did himself many times. When i read Western ress for the moment i see not many adjectives I used on Thsiekedi. Many people also n the big pmedia have copied even sme rumors launched without proof by Tshisekedi and udps.<br /><br />But I agree and excuse myself. Congolese people who believe realy in Tshisekedi as the alternative to Kabila have every right to do that. And this adjectives could be interpreted as directed to them. <br /><br />It is not because some people on facebook or on the streets are menacing some friends simply because they do not favor Tshisekedi and some people organise a lott of intoxication with non fundede accusation via sms and so, that all members of udps are hysterical or members of a sect. This is something i didn't wanted to have insinuated.<br /><br />There are certainly in the udps courageous and honnest people who have common sense. And who only want to change their country for the good. <br /><br />Let's hope that they can prevail for the coming days and weeks.<br /><br />Good news is this : http://radiookapi.net/actualite/2011/12/06/publication-des-resultats-lopposition-la-majorite-appellent-la-population-de-kananga-au-calme/Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14850495235954766334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-51180235747107203372011-12-06T06:28:58.499-08:002011-12-06T06:28:58.499-08:00Balanced and provocative piece, Mr. Stearns.
I ha...Balanced and provocative piece, Mr. Stearns.<br /><br />I had planned on weighing into some of these discussions but, for the time being, I believe its best to sit back and wait and listen. <br /><br />We just concluded what, to a foriegn observer living in a mostly functional state and democracy, a pretty disturbing election process from the get go but, again, level-headedness is going to be key moving forward.<br /><br />In any event, I am somewhat happy former UN Rep, Governor of New Mexico, and failed Presidential candidate- Bill Richardson- is to be the special envoy in the Congo. In addition to his own inspiring story being the son of Mexican migrants to this country that has achieved, I know for a fact Bill has the deepest and most profound love for the Congolese people and is committed to democracy in Africa. Ofcourse, he's known the key players in the Congo for atleast 2 decades now and has stated many times that the prime problem in the Congo is it inability to create a functioning state (seen clearly in this mess of an election) and these two key frameworks will serve him and the Congolese well, I believe. <br /><br />This, and I guess a few others things, gives me hope in what is likely to be some difficult days ahead. <br /><br />MelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-21050130125369775142011-12-06T04:54:14.492-08:002011-12-06T04:54:14.492-08:00@Rich:
When delivering your lecture, just make sur...@Rich:<br />When delivering your lecture, just make sure you provide an authoritative source and don't rely on statistics that are 12 years old.... the DRC has moved on since 1999.You must be desperate to try to impress me with "reconstruction demographic estimates from extraneous/missing data".<br />Simple question: when making a business decision, do you seriously think that a foreign investor, for instance, will rely on a 1999 statistic or a more recent one from a RELIABLE source such as the UN, CIA, UNFPA or FAO... ?<br />Good day in Ouagadougou !!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-91291587503050580792011-12-06T03:56:30.561-08:002011-12-06T03:56:30.561-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01301460106025447019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-52550338100318951922011-12-06T03:39:06.095-08:002011-12-06T03:39:06.095-08:00Oops....my mistake.
You are talking about courts.....Oops....my mistake.<br />You are talking about courts.... I don't know if you ever dealt with one in the DRC, but justice is always delivered according to power and status. If you are in power, all decisions will be in your favour so answers 1 and 5 are irrelevant.<br />Institut National de la Statistiue de Limete in 1999....please, you should know better. Does it still exist ?<br />The last pouplation census was carried in 1985 in the Congo. It is standard practice to ignore data, especially from 1999 when the DRC was at war with its neigbours, from most Kinshasa's based insituttes as they usually take a casual approach to everything.... from selling degrees to producing statistics to please a particular audience. The question reamains: we need an authoritative source to agree on.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-62529578709487061852011-12-06T03:23:15.892-08:002011-12-06T03:23:15.892-08:00Anonymous 3:16
Re-read my post and the source is ...Anonymous 3:16<br /><br />Re-read my post and the source is there.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01301460106025447019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-3237043286891406012011-12-06T03:21:06.985-08:002011-12-06T03:21:06.985-08:00@Anon 3.03:
Please stop namecalling.... we deal wi...@Anon 3.03:<br />Please stop namecalling.... we deal with facts here even if we have our views/opinions about what is unfolding in the DRC<br />@Rich: you are absolute right !!... the comment is shallow, disrepectful and hurtful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-29537488972975466002011-12-06T03:16:15.565-08:002011-12-06T03:16:15.565-08:00Please give us your sources. A quick look at Wikip...Please give us your sources. A quick look at Wikipedia and you have a 2010 population estimation of 5 608 683 for Katanga. Lubumbashi the largest city has 1 630 186 inhabitants.......<br />We find ourselves in the same situation as CENI (You) and the opposition (Me): we have different numbers that don't agree.....what is the solution ? your carrying on claiming that you have the right information or finding TOGETHER the reasons for the discrepancy and a way forward ?<br />Let me know !!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-81782995852079456722011-12-06T03:10:45.652-08:002011-12-06T03:10:45.652-08:00Anonymous December 6, 3:03
I am sorry to say this...Anonymous December 6, 3:03<br /><br />I am sorry to say this but that last comment is just very shallow that even an ant can swimm in without the fear of drawning...<br /><br />Why don't you borrow a nick name so that we can see if you can assume your post?<br /><br />It seems like some of you guys are acting in a cowardly way, masking or changing your pseudo so that you can avoid scrutiny...<br /><br />Very sad from thos who would like the world to see them as the SOLUTION for the DRC... That is so PATHETIC<br /><br />I don't mind being labelled a Tutsi and trust me if I am one, I will still be a VERY PROUD CONGOLESE regardless of what you think.<br /><br />RichRichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01301460106025447019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-67723999950104091182011-12-06T03:05:28.993-08:002011-12-06T03:05:28.993-08:00Sorry, the population estimates are in thousands, ...Sorry, the population estimates are in thousands, so one needs to add 3 zeros at the end of the figures I gave... <br /><br />e.g. read, "Katanga population has been estimated at 10,834,000 (5,388,000 males and 5,446,000 females)...Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01301460106025447019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-63445583161661513602011-12-06T03:03:02.271-08:002011-12-06T03:03:02.271-08:00Rich,
You should remove your mask and tell us who ...Rich,<br />You should remove your mask and tell us who you are. You hate UDPS because of the song that has accompanied him through the all campaign. You have mourned on the death of tutsis in Fizi and you have complained also on Yakutumba supporting ET although the CNDP have done the same with the PPRD...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-37863441624372560582011-12-06T03:01:54.908-08:002011-12-06T03:01:54.908-08:00Anon December 6 2:27
Fair tentative but it falls ...Anon December 6 2:27<br /><br />Fair tentative but it falls very short.<br /><br />1. electoral list not audited by independent parties, full of under 18 voters<br /><br />Answer: Opposition parties were invited to audit the lists and some even went to court but their cases were dismissed due to the various reasons...<br /><br />2. - Katanga with a population of 6.5 million has almost 5 million registered voters, 1.5 million more than Kinshasa which has 10 million inhabitants<br /><br />Answer: Katanga population has been estimated at 10834 (5388 males and 5446 females) projections made by the Institut National de la Statistique Kinshasa Limete in 1999. Kinshasa population was estimated at 8683 (4372 males and 4311 females). Do I need to stress the fact that these projections were made when J Kabila was not even dreaming of becoming the president of DRC???<br /><br />3. - constitutional reform that changes the way president is elected<br /><br />Answer: This was not unconstitutional since there is not a single article of the constitution that has been violated. Show one if you are aware of any and I will be grateful to learn from you.<br /><br />4. - CENI headed by the president's oncle<br /><br />Answer: Mulunda was chosen with the agreement of the Congolese political class in parliament. in the same way Jack Joli (from MLC an opposition party) is vice chair of the CENI. Who is to blame if udps was not present in the National Assembly in order to block/veto Mulunda's designation?<br /><br />5. - electoral and polling station lists made available only a few days before the election not A MONTH before as promised<br /><br />Answer: udps protested against it and I think they even launched a court case but lost it again for various reasons...<br /><br />My question is still STANDING...<br /><br />For the record, I would like to say I am not a J Kabila backer but I don't mind being perceived as such since the elections have made things a bit SUBJECTIVE rather than OBJECTIVE ...<br /><br />RichRichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01301460106025447019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-28215448347019165882011-12-06T02:49:04.738-08:002011-12-06T02:49:04.738-08:00Anonymous,
Checkmate.
VincentAnonymous,<br /><br />Checkmate.<br /><br />VincentVincenthttp://coloredopinions.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1209670742820403516.post-8620295398123145392011-12-06T02:37:48.654-08:002011-12-06T02:37:48.654-08:00Quite alarming to notice for such a great blog, so...Quite alarming to notice for such a great blog, some people seem ready to forget J Kabila's camp pre-elections' "intent":<br />- electoral list not audited by independent parties, full of under 18 voters<br />- Katanga with a population of 6.5 million has almost 5 million registered voters, 1.5 million more than Kinshasa which has 10 million inhabitants<br />- constitutional reform that changes the way president is elected<br />- CENI headed by the president's oncle<br />- electoral and polling station lists made available only a few days before the election not A MONTH before as promisedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com