Painting by Cheri Samba

Lokuta eyaka na ascenseur, kasi vérité eyei na escalier mpe ekomi. Lies come up in the elevator; the truth takes the stairs but gets here eventually. - Koffi Olomide

Ésthetique eboma vélo. Aesthetics will kill a bicycle. - Felix Wazekwa

Sunday, February 12, 2012

Katumba Mwanke, key presidential advisor, dies

Augustin Katumba Mwanke, one of the most important political leaders in the Congo, died this afternoon in a plane crash in Bukavu. According to preliminary reports, the pilots misjudged the descent and slid the plane off the runway. Katumba, who had taken his seatbelt off after the plane touched down, was catapulted forward and died. Several other regime stalwarts were on the flight and were seriously injured, including Antoine Ghonda (roaming ambassador), Matata Ponyo (finance minister) and Marcellin Cisambo  (governor of South Kivu). I have not heard any suspicions that the crash was caused intentionally.

Katumba - or AKM, as he was often called - is probably the only senior figure in Joseph Kabila's inner circle to have weathered the ups-and-downs of his presidency and to have remained by his side throughout the past eleven years. A business executive I spoke to today in Kinshasa told me: "[Katumba's death] is more momentous for the country than the elections. While that is probably an exaggeration, it is difficult to understate Katumba's influence in Congolese business and politics.

He initially entered into Congolese politics after working for HSBC Equator Bank in South Africa - his family ties (he was married to the sister of a former finance minister), his ethnicity (he was from a minority group in Katanga province, which allowed him to avoid the messy North-South tussles) and his business savoir-faire were key assets. He first worked as governor of Katanga under Laurent Kabila, where he first got to know Joseph Kabila, who spent much of his time in the province in charge of military operations. When the latter became president, he brought Katumba to Kinshasa to become minister for state companies (Portefeuille de l'État). It was in this position that he came under fire from the United Nations for having helped transfer state assets to Zimbabwean businessmen in exchange for war funding.

Given this bad publicity, he stepped out of the limelight and never again held an official cabinet position. He was itinerant ambassador (the catch-all term for troubleshooters in the presidency), then secretary-general of the Alliance pour la majorité presidentielle (AMP), the presidential coalition, then - as of 2010 - had no official position other than as parliamentarian from Pweto (he renewed that position during the last elections). But he was always active behind the scenes, helping Kabila with the political and financial management of the government.

Katumba elicited bile from his critics and admiration from many around him. He was the mastermind behind crucial financial deals, including most of the big mining deals concluded in the past decade. He was also very close to Dan Gertler, the Israeli businessman who has become increasingly prominent in Congolese business circles. "No mining contract is signed without Katumba's approval," is a phrase I heard more than once among Kinshasa businessmen. "Everytime I saw Katumba, he would speak with the president at least two or three times on the phone," another business executive told me today after his death.

Augustin Katumba Mwanke

Rasputin, Dick Cheney, éminence grise - these were all epithets applied to Katumba. The qualities that endeared him to Kabila were his extreme loyalty, as well as his efficiency in getting things done.
Now that he is gone, there is bound to be a struggle over power in the inner circle, a struggle that will be all the fiercer given the tumultuous elections and the ongoing negotiations over the formation of a new government. Over the past five years, Katumba had become increasingly incontournable as, one by one, other advisors fell by the wayside - Mwenze Kongolo (sidelined in 2002), Samba Kaputo (died in 2007), Vital Kamerhe (dissented in 2009), Henri Mova (appointed ambassador to Belgium), Kikaya bin Karubi (appointed ambassador to the UK), and so on. With Katumba gone, the various luminaries who had emerged with his help will vie for influence, including Evariste Boshab (the outgoing head of the national assembly) and Adolphe Lumanu (minister of interior). Matata Ponyo, the influential finance minister who is also close to Katumba, was injured in the plane crash.

There are not many who carried as much weight as Katumba. One recent rival has been Pierre Lumbi, the national security advisor, head of the MSR party and former minister of infrastructure. Given the MSR's strong electoral performance, he is well positioned within Kabila's inner circle.

But it is also clear that no one had the combination of intellect, business know-how and expansive networks that Katumba did, especially in the business sector. To that extent, there no one can easily fill his shoes. Mining executives who show up in Kinshasa these days will probably be confronted with an even more confused decision-making process, while palace intrigues at the presidency will inevitably crescendo. For all else, we will have to wait until the dust settles.

118 comments:

nowisthetime said...

All those fighting for the respect of the truth from the polls should feel encouraged in their struggle: now is the time and let's hope marches that will take place this week will be a success.

hope4congo said...

Let's hope that disorganization in Kabila's camp will help the efforts of Congolese freedom fighters. Ingeta

Anonymous said...

Jason this a non event for millions of Congolese people who still struggle to cope with every day live, katumba Mwankwe was in the list of UN rapport on DRC Economical Crimes in 2002 or 2003,“dieu Le Pre” “god the father” as he used to be called, unfortunately he is gone with a lot of secrets on how Congo was looted as never before he was one of the person would should be arrested and judge for the Economical crimes he has done mostly on mineral deals. But God judgment has done it for this suffering people. Congolese people will not regret at all about this man, apart from some wealthy minerals company in which Katumba mwanke helped to loot the Congo. No regret.
Suga Congo

Anonymous said...

Jason this a non event for millions of Congolese people who still struggle to cope with every day live, katumba Mwankwe was in the list of UN rapport on DRC Economical Crimes in 2002 or 2003,“dieu Le Pre” “god the father” as he used to be called, unfortunately he is gone with a lot of secrets on how Congo was looted as never before he was one of the person would should be arrested and judge for the Economical crimes he has done mostly on mineral deals. But God judgment has done it for this suffering people. Congolese people will not regret at all about this man, apart from some wealthy minerals company in which Katumba mwanke helped to loot the Congo. No regret.
Sunga Congo

evh said...

A real shame Kanambe wasn't on that plane.

But God/Allah is good and K(abila) will surely get crazy now.

CONGOLESE PEOPLE,
for your rights, your freedom, your families
STAND UP

D E B O U T C O N G O L A I S !

Anonymous said...

i'm more concerned that the death of katumba will encourage various pretenders with half-baked dreams of replacing kabila to move into action at a moment of weakness. i don't care that this means gertler's days are numbered, but it does matter if this encourages some real fighting -- i mean bullets in kinshasa -- to emerge. time will tell, but this is momentous. esp. if cishambo and ghonda were also killed, as is reported in losako.

Anonymous said...

Good luck for all u haters......please keep bringing for fight in drc...because there isnt enough...pls keep putting more anger because this is whatcyou so called " god" taught you to do...... U dont fight evil with more evil....... Somebody die, and there is no celebration ,just silence. Shame on you

shameoncriminals said...

@Anonymous
I thought shame should be in criminals.

Anonymous said...

This event should sound the alarm for this evil clic dubbed AMP which has decided to toy with the destiny of millions of Congolese. Katumba is gone, this is I can imagine a painful news for his family and friends however what is his legacy for the Congo? The man has excelled as an evil genius. Jason you seem to paise his alleged intellectual prowess however "Science sans conscience n'est que ruine de l'ame." Katumba has left behind his fortune illegally accumulated, could have been a better idea to use his business accumen for the good of the community

Rich said...

Cisambo (one of the nine survivors) gave an interview tonight... Apparently it was a human error. it was the first time the pilot and his assistant flew that plane and indeed to Kavumu airport, hence they misscalculated the runway's distance and the landing went bad... Cisambo said he saw Katumba flying past his head (probably was not wearing his sit-belt when the plane overrun the runway plunging into a ditch...
It is a massive personal loss to J Kabila but I don't think this will have an impact on domestic issues especially since this is being confirmed as a human error rather than an attack...

Rich

Anonymous said...

We have to recognize that the balance of power has shifted to the people.
It is our duty to help our people get rid of that clique.

Anonymous said...

For the ones who see "a window of hope" and who like to use this event to show their hate against the elected president Kabila : please watch the conference of Lambert Mende on the case of Shabani : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCfCFCK-7X8

Anonymous said...

This tragic accident might be a tipping point for the kabila's regime! AKM was indeed incontournable but passed away when Kabila most needed him! The two knew and trusted each other more than Dick Cheney and G Bush. Don't foresee Kabila coming out of this personal loss so lightly!

Anonymous said...

k

Anonymous said...

Well after reading numerous other articles as well As hearing different versions of this story, I stand proud with no shame by saying katumba mwanke GO TO HELL. karma exists the blood of more than 8 million congolese brothers and sister were on his hands. he sold our resources for cheap for monetary gain that went straight into his pocket, while millions suffered.I am a God fearing christian, and even though you dont return evil with evil. Nothing just happens everything happens for a reason. Victory is ours TSHI TSHI for president kabila in the HAgue and a Prosperous Congo!!!!!! INGETA

Anonymous said...

It it sad the way the balubas from Kasai are selebrating the death of MR KATUMBA mwanke. my friends this is not going to give power to your cult leader(E CHISEKEDI),his time has passed and he will die as a president of his rundown LIMETE home.

Rich said...

The two crew members were american citizens, they both died and there are reports saying two more bodies must be underneath the damaged aircraft apparently of locals who got hit by the airplane as it ended its run outside the runway ...

No matter what people think about J Kabila, this is still a tragic loss and my thoughts go to the families of those who lost their lives.

For me, it is mean and short sighted to rejoice about the death of another human because no one knows how his/her death will come to meet them. Just a thought...

Rich

blaise said...

To anon FEBRUARY 13, 2012 1:56 AM,
As Rich said, we should not rejoice about the death of another human being, we are not master of other people destiny. In the other hand, I wonder if you did a scientific survey about people celebrating about this death. I'm not Luba and I believe it's kind of tribalism to associate everybody who doesn't support your wonderful candidate Kabila as Luba.
I understand you believe in your man short sighting about Congo but that's you. Look south, Zambia won the CAN, Zimbabwe is more advance than us, we far from Botswana, should I carry on? So please, don't insult our intelligence by bringing us back to the dark age of tribalism, your man died, so what? hundred died every day, what so special about him that we should care?

333M said...

This is a good news for Congolese suffirring fore kabila and his secret key person Katumba. God is at our side all the days. His boss Kavila who is invisble, may follow him later on. The guy is all the time selling ours ores to chinese companies without pity and in no price. I thing the two other complice will follow him...Sorry for two innocents who died without reason...let's Katumba, Matata Ponio and Khonda rest in trouble during their time before going to hell

Ils seront mal alaise said...

I want to make rediculous those guys citing Tshisekedi in this business. There is no problem of Luba, I am from BDD and I can not accept the way that AKM and JK cilled people and continue to killing in Kivu...Please Tshisekedi will die in dignity not like JK and AKM..+ others...Shame to you men

Anonymous said...

If she she(Tshi)was the one killed in a crush, they could have blamed Kabila for deliberate assassination - even though it is a human error accident.
Let me drop one thing to those guys who are in diaspora, Even if Kabila dies, she she CAN NOT BE A PRESIDENT of Congo to bring change.
The one who will bring change to this beloved country is not yet born - you will not see the change in your life time!
By the way, i hope you understand me why i call him she she.

Dilla
Goma

Anonymous said...

2 Amazing men died at the controls of that plane and will be dearly missed.

blaise said...

@ Dilla,
it's not a mystery that JK and his people are well versed into foul plays so if, as you put it, it's was Tshisekedi, the prime suspect will have been Jk, no question here.
I'm not into conspiracy theories but there was no investigations yet to determine that it was an accident so let's not jump into conclusions. You may remember that Katumbi's plane had to go back in south Africa 2-3 years ago because there was a sabotage. Beside I don't buy it that the crash occurred because it was the pilots inexperience. That raise questions: what is their backgrounds, experience, etc. I'm not a pilot but it's seems to me a little odd that those people will be so new that they miss the runaway. Brakes? Mechanics? anything is possible.
I'm impressed by your ability to predict the future(lol) maybe you sjould play the lottery or pmu often.lmao

Anonymous said...

Mr tsh tsh is selling his country in the same way to the canadians .......instead of chinese.....so please.......get you story in place. Fight with hate you will always have more hate back at you...... Pls i imvite you to keep going with this non sense instead of promoting peacful movement for a mindshift keep promoting fight, because at the end Africa has always been fingerpointed as the bloody continent ...... The bigs want you to stay unstable for the rest of your life and mainly angry. So they can do their own dirty business. And like you said karma exist. So watch your back. I. Dont trust kabila, dont trust tshesekedi, havent seen a congolese leader fighting for their country, but i saw a lots of congolese in the Congo trying to change the system and i will always support them.......you sir keep bringing hate as the alternative.

Anonymous said...

I know you all have your opinions about what this man did right and wrong; and that's fine...but please DO NOT wish him hell and celebrate his death. Think of the three girls and a son who are left to grow up without their father, think of the family members that miss the person who they knew as: dad, husband, brother, uncle, and friend. Have a heart and think before you write hurtful things, God bless you all!!!

Anonymous said...

@ anon 10.17am.
listen we cannot think of of those kids or his family, when he was busy cutting deals and cheques to foreign investors and letting companies loot eastern congo. did he think of those families? brother uncles, dads who have to watch the wives get raped in front of them kids who are forced into child soldiers fleeing your home all because of minerals that he sells to the international community. Tell me do you stop to think about that? his kids go to prestige school they are driven by chauffeurs the have what ever they would like. so excuse my language when i say your comment is baseless and illogical my dear friend. the english language says you live by the gun you die by the gun. which means the same way you make your living is the same way you shall end you life. understood I said before and i shall say it again Katumba Mwanke GO TO HELL DEMON. jk NEXT this is the same anon from 1.40 am feb 13 please answer back if you feel I am wrong.

Anonymous said...

you are aware that the children did not choose their lives. the idea that they should answer for their father is simply ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

A lot of stupidities are being said here but that what Congolese are mostly known for. I am just amazed to see some of the people claiming to be Christians and the things that they're posting. Why don't you go to the basic teachings of the bible and ask yourself what would have jesus done in these circumstances? I know the bible well enough to know He wouldn't have told the dead Katumba to go to hell. Didn't He die for all of us to avoid hell and have life and life abundant? Just remember, the person who wrote most of the New testament is named Paul, he used to be called Saul. That says it all about God's mercy and the kind of attitude we need to have. Besides,hatred HAS NEVER built a country, so, use as little of it as you can. God bless you all and may go bless the Congo.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 11:41 am...WOW! I pity your lack of self-control. I said: you have the right to feel angry about whatever you FEEL Katumba did to hurt the country. I have spent many nights thinking about all the trageties that took place in eastern Congo, and many more praying for those families you mention. At some point in ones life there comes a time when you reach a certain level of maturity that allows you to be more cautious...I pity you beacuse I can see that you are just another one of those people who think your angry posts, and ill wishes will effect anyone! Truth is, they make no difference, they bring no peace nor do they re-write the past that you are so angry about. God is the ONLY perfect soul that has the right to judge any of us, and you are right: those that live by the gun, die by the gun. But you forget one thing, if you fight fire with fire...you are ALSO destined to get burned!

Anonymous said...

@Anon 3:52pm...I completly agree with you, and applaud your courage to call things out as they are: what we need to do is Pray for the Congo, and let God do the rest. We all simply need to learn to look at current world events with our spiritual eyes...God bless you!

Anonymous said...

GOOD BYE AND SAY HI TO MOBUTU FROM US!

Anonymous said...

You should also add that he was the master mind behind the fraudulent re-election of Kabila. A villain who shamelessly made money at the expense of the Congolese people. Pouahh...Pouahhh...

Anonymous said...

Most of this peoples who are here celebrating the death of MR KATUMBA MWANKE are former supporters of dictator MOBUTU,and war criminal JP BEMBA and the rest are BALUBAS from Kasai who hate the fact that their dream of installing a LUBA dictatorship in Congo through CHICHI has been crushed by the reelection of KABILA , I am not a JK supporter but I am happy to see the end of the UDPS tribal dictatorship which was becoming a cancer to the Congoles democracy . I will never celebrate CHICHI 's death ,but I wish him a good retirement at his republic of Limete. Thanks god he did not succeed on selling the Congo to the SWEDISH ,CANADIANS, BELGIANS...as was his plan. May the souls of all the victims of this very tragic accident rest in peace. May god bless my beloved nation of the DRC.

Anonymous said...

Oh dear... as an interested foreigner I don't understand all the emotions about Tshishi in that context. What Tshishi has to do with all that? It's clear, that Tshishi has no right to be President, no matter what happens. He had the possibility to change things, but he didn't do anything about, he's just talking a lot. Preparing a comfortable bed for his family.
But about that crash - my first thaught was: Why pilotes from USA? Aren't there any congolese pilotes, who know the area? I'm sure, there are congolese pilotes with better experience. So, why these people trust in US American pilotes? After their meeting was very secret and unofficially, it was so secret, that they didn't want any congolese people to know about it? Means, they were planning to sell out the country totally, something like this. Under this aspect, this accident seems to be the hint of fate, that is going to prepare a change for the congolese people. The beginning of the beginning of better times. I hope so. And as I am not a christ nor muslim, my pity and sympathy is with those who are innocent victims and their families. Like the two unknown persons in this crash, or the pedestrians who died in that carcrash in Kin, caused by Bishop's kids. They all are victims of this inhuman system kabila & co.

libra

blaise said...

@ libra,
you are right, I don't see what Tshisekedi had to do with that story. A lot of people speculate unnecessary about : what if it was...
It's irrelevant. Beside, what makes this guy's death so special compare to others? His boss JK ordered murders, enhanced a system of assassinations and intimidation.
Correction, those pilots where from south africa, it's seems they were wrongly identify. I still think they should check that plane, I won't be surprise if there was a sabotage there. Rusians who never been in bukavu lands their old antonov without a lot of problems there.

Rich said...

Ref # "Correction, those pilots where from south africa, it's seems they were wrongly identify."

Blaine County pilot killed in DR Congo

By :TERRY SMITH
In Idaho Mountain Express.

A Blaine County man was one of two American pilots killed in the Democratic Republic of Congo in a plane crash Sunday that claimed the life of one of the central African nation's top presidential advisers.

The U.S. Embassy in Kinshasa, DR Congo, confirmed this morning that Marcus D. Beresford, 54, who lived in the Bellevue area, was one of the pilots killed, Embassy Public Affairs Officer Mark Dillard identified the other pilot as Geoffrey Wiener, no age or address is immediately available.

The Associated Press identified the DR Congo official killed in the crash as Augustin Katumba Mwanke, the chief advisor to President Joseph Kabila. The crash occurred Sunday afternoon local time when the aircraft overshot a runway near the eastern DR Congo town of Bukavu.

Hermione Watkinson, Beresford's half-sister who lives in Hailey, said Monday that her brother was the co-pilot of the aircraft and that he had been flying for government officials in the DR Congo for about the past year.

See Wednesday's edition of the Idaho Mountain Express for more on this story.

Rich

Anonymous said...

Our God is a God of justice, we been croying day a night for those who are seling our contry mineral but God have eard our prier, we know this is just the beginning, there more to come.everyone should be punished.

Anonymous said...

thanks for posting that, rich.

Anonymous said...

KATUMBA MWANKE was a Congoles Hero who's hard work and patriotism stopped the Country from Braking apart after the death of president LAURENT KABILA ,he is also credited for the SUN CITY peace deal that led to the departure of foreign troops and stopped the balkanisation of the DRC... He also died trying to bring a lasting peace to the Kivu. Mr KATUMBA MWANKE is a national hero who gave his life serving his Country.

Anonymous said...

Knowing the pilot Geoffrey Wiener persally, I find it very hard to believe this was accidental. He was not the type of persona to misjudge a landing!! Sorry for the loss of your aide, but, I like many, lost a friend!! God Speed!

Anonymous said...

After the accident the pilots were alive but seriously injured, it seems that they have been killed by unidentified man on the spot.
I wonder to hear from someone inboard to declare that AKM did not put his seat belt when the plane was landing. My question is that how did he recognize or guess in that horrible moment to see AKM did not wear the seat belt? I understood that they were with huge amount of do$$ar$ for unclear deal.
Any way RIP and greet for me Osama,Gadafi and not forgetting Mubuto, you will tell the truth when you meet she she and JK.

Dilla
Goma

blaise said...

thanks Rich, I think somebody from the rtnc said that their bodies were sent to south africa. Ty for the correction.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for answering Blaise and Rich! But nothing answers my question: Why the pilots were foreigners, not congolese? It seems only an insignificant fact, but for me this is characteristic for the sale of the countries ressources, without partizipation of congolese people.

Libra

Anonymous said...

Unconfirmed reports say that they were going to Ijwi (An Island at lake Kivu)in order to buy part of mineral rich land (Rich in Wolframite - Wo3 & Tantilite - Ta205)from Bisengimana's son. Bisengimana owns large part of Ijwi area.
The only son of late Bisengimana was in the plane for the deal - he is injured.

Dilla
Goma

Rich said...

Libra -

Ref # "Why the pilots were foreigners, not congolese?"

For its size and relative importance, the DRC doesn't only lack pilots, the country has a critical shortage of many many skills and expertise. When you spend more than 32 years destroying the few good things you had and stupefying when you don't sacrifice generations of Congolese, one should not be surprised to discover that the country lacks enough pilots, let alone half-decent politicians.

It is a fallacy to expect Congolese to do a great job in any area as long as you have not educate and prepare them consequently. For this reason, I'm affraid to say we should all brace to take in the fact that we may not live long enough to see the change we want in that country. Just a thought...

Sorry if I didn't answer your question but I was not prepared to speculate otherwise on your conspiracy theories...

Rich

Anonymous said...

In May 2012, we will celebrate (?) 15 years of Kabilas rule; almost half of the time Mobutu's rule. It is time that the current regime and its supporters take responsibility for its failings and stop blaming all of the DRC's current problems to the rule of one man; however long it was.
The DRC decline started in the early 90s. Until then, Zaire had the same standards as the rest of Africa in terms of education or health.
Over the past 15 years, nothing has been done to reverse the steady decline of this country. To educate and prepare Congolese in any fields, you first need to restore the authority of the state and a functioning administration. Not sure this is high in the agenda of the current leadership.

Anonymous said...

Hi Rich,

Yes, it makes sense, what you say. I want you to know, it was not my intention to spread conspiracy theories, it was just a true question. As I said, your answer makes sense. But what I see, there are so many congolese people living in exile in western countries. Many of them have a good education and would like to go back and help to build their country. It is just not possible, as long as the president's people put pressure to everybody who express a different political opinion. So it seems to me, the president rather like to work with foreigners, because they don't criticize him and they will not talk about the governments secrets. No foreigner will remind him to follow the interests of the congolese nation. Sorry, I'm not sure if my english is good enough to express what I mean.
Imagine - if a croud of such important gouvernment members would have a meeting in a democratic coutry - that would be in the News. There must be a reason for a private meeting of such high-ranking politicians. And it is not a speculation of conspiracy theories to give weight to this circumstances and to consider the reasons for the secrecy. Is it?

libra

Anonymous said...

Praise God that the guy is gone. please leave Tshitshi out of this.The good thing do is to pray for orthers like him to follow

Anonymous said...

not much new here, but for those who are interested, here's the rfi interview with former french amb jacquemot:

http://www.rfi.fr/afrique/20120215-pierre-jacquemot-chercheur-associe-iris-ancien-ambassadeur-france-kinshasa

Anonymous said...

It's an interesting interview. Only I can't agree with him saying, that men were "personalities from high quality". So, what have they done for the Congo?

Their "high quality" was only for multiply the power and property of Kabila and their own families, for the disadventage of the congolese people. But at last this accident was caused by own failure, because they all ignored the need of essential infrastructure.

Anonymous said...

i think katumba was pretty much a technocrat, and that is what jacquemot was getting at. likewise cishambo.

i was struck by his rejection of the corruption charge against katumba. i do agree that claims and counterclaims are pointless without evidence, so i don't want to get that back and forth started as it never gets resolved. but it was striking to have him come strongly on that count, which i have not seen anyone else do in other press.

it's fairly clear that france's former man in kinshasa had a lot of respect for le decede.

Anonymous said...

Don't want to add to the suspicion of the circumstances surrounding his death but isn't it a little awkward that the US ambassador acknowledged yesterday's Kabila's re-election 72hrs after Katumbi's death? In french they say: coincidence n'est pas politique. merci!

Anonymous said...

I was surprised the first reaction I had upon learning of the tragic death of "le tout puissant" AKM was as devastating as if I were informed of the passing away of a close relative. I'm not known to be a Kabila fan, let alone fond of Kabilists, however, I felt sad for his family and friends, including Kabila. This reaction reminded of what binds us as all members of the human race, of our common destiny: the fragility of human nature; we're all mortals. It's true one vile aspect of politics is to incite to de-humanize the other person, but let's not descent too low!

Yes, I didn't quite like the man, but that's not ample reason to rejoice over his death. The sanctity of human life trumps politics, let's apply that rule to friends and foes alike. Nobody should be killed because he/she engaged in a political activity; the death of nobody should be celebrated because he/she is on the other side of the aisle.

To Kabila zealots killing opposition demonstrators, let's stand up and say NO.

To Oppositionists mocking the death of AKM, let's rise up and say NO.

Now, "please leave Tshitshi out of this", said one previous blogger. Sorry, we can't. Why? Kabilists have been consistently making ridicule of the age of Etienne Tshisekedi, even villainously dubbling him "deuil national" (national mourning), arguing that we can't afford to elect a person of his age the president under the pretence that he would die during his very first months in office.

Come on dudes, drop this old age argument of yours! At least, let this tragic episode help you do that. In our African culture, old age bespeaks wisdom and is an asset, not a liability. On the other side, how sure are you that you'll be as lucky as he is to turn 79? Who told you that it's only old-timers who do die, not younger fellows? How do you know that 10 years from now you'll still be alive and not someone who's today 79? Come on, it's high time many Kabilists recover their senses.

On my side, I wish J Kabila to be as lucky as ET and live long enough to see his grandchildren...whether in jail or as a free man.

Bruno

Anonymous said...

@ Bruno...
I know Kabila will not make it to rich 79, just because he is leading a problematic but lovely country.
Do you know that Obama got his grey hair after 5 months of leadership?
Leadership is not as easy as speaking french in Congo !
Old age is an asset/hero only when one do something for the country.
Leader ship is a blessing from God,if you contest to lead and you fail,that means God knew what is in your heart - you will never get awarded.
When Kabila was born, Tshi Tshi had 39 years of age; the very first time Tshi Tshi started to wish to be a president of Congo, Kabila did not even start walking, then Kabila came long way to be a president of Congo.
There must be a problem between Tshi Tshi and God.
Another one still will be born to be a president of Congo while our Tshi Tshi continue his wishes.


Let him disarm his wishes before the lamp get blown.

Chuchuru
Goma

Anonymous said...

Katumba Mwake had 16 Mill US with him and Bisengimana son had 26 Mill US with. This information was leaked by presidential guard and UN staff who were there first to protect the plane and passengers just after the accident. My question is this why these two people was caring so much cash? Whilst MIBA is looking for only 20 Mill US to start again. I know this because I'be seen the report written by Mabunda the portfolio minister.
So let all imagine for a min the money was there's, why take all that cash to Idjui? I hope I've spell the name of the Ireland corectley.

Anonymous said...

@ Chuchuru

Seriously, I don’t know why Tshisekedi haters in this blog have to append geographical information as to the location from where they’re spewing out their diatribe against ET. I fail to understand why systematically adding “Goma” does in any way add value to the content of your ideas…Granted, your post leaves met wondering whether to scream or laugh. At least, it brought back to my mind a remark made by an American friend of mine who back in 2003 noted that “Congolese are certainly intelligent, but not pertinent”.

You say: “When Kabila was born, Tshi Tshi had 39 years of age; the very first time Tshi Tshi started to wish to be a president of Congo, Kabila did not even start walking, then Kabila came long way to be a president of Congo… Another one still will be born to be a president of Congo while our Tshi Tshi continue his wishes.”

My friend, your constant mockery of Tshisekedi echoes the relentless blame-the-victim rethoric which Tshisekedi haters have adopted after Kabila’s fraudulent win. It’s just breathtaking! It actually makes you – not him – look ridiculous. Poor me, and you dare involve God in this quagmire which makes even the Devil feel sick!

It’s like someone sleeps with his friend’s wife and lays the blame on the weakness of his friend’s marriage. Will you applaud such a person? Only villains will do that!
That’s exactly what Kabila did: rig the election and blame the disunity of the opposition. Now, you’re taking this stupidity to new heights: it’s now “There must be a problem between Tshi Tshi and God.” Wow!

Or maybe you’re actually saying that it’s God who rigged the election in Kabila’s favour. If that’s what you think, then just say it loud and clear. Don’t blame Tshisekedi in this mess. You should however have this fact drummed well into your head: Kabila DID not win this election. Claiming otherwise is, to steal the words from a commentator on Engwete’s blog, “to pie in our feet and claim it’s raining”!

Shortly after Kabila’s inauguration, a diplomat said this in a cable he sent to his Government: “if you ask me to swear by the Bible that Kabila won, I would swear and just make sure I don’t touch the Bible”.

You said “Leadership is a blessing from God”. Probably. But if you’re just fine with what Kabila’s just done these past two months, if you think that his regime’s actions are not a shame to the country, then it’s probably you who have a problem with God: He gave you a wonderful country you are not deserving of.

If you’re happy with the current state of affairs in your country, let me help you ponder just a little bit:

“Most Congolese remain poor, hungry and in danger of violence. Their government cannot provide the most basic necessities for their families. Public administration is virtually non-existent, with civil servants demanding payment from the public for even the most routine services. MONUSCO is handling security, and the World Health Organization is dealing with the country’s public health issues. The challenge for the international community is to help build the capacity and political will of Congolese officials to assume the responsibility for caring for and protecting their citizens.”

You know whose statement is this one? The US Congress’ Committee on Foreign Affairs’s. Are you happy with this depiction of your country? Is it normal for Congolese authorities to need pressure to have the “will” to care for and protect their people? You’re starving and somebody must convince you must do something to find food !

The infantilization of our country has reached new levels under Joseph Kabila: it’s just unacceptable. Indeed, Joseph Kabila’s incompetence has become a bad joke and a disgrace for the whole Congolese nation. And you’re looking for “leadership” that comes from God? My brother, you’re insulting this God by implying that bad governance should have five more years.

(to be continued)

Bruno

Anonymous said...

(continued)

One final advice to Kabila supporters, especially in the Kivus: don’t forget the WYSIWYG rule. I borrowed this term from the IT language to adapt it to politics: What-You-Support-Is-What-You-Get .

Our Kabilists brothers are prone to (again) support bullshit, they’ll (again) get shitstorm.

Many Easterners intellectuals will wake up the day it’s too late. And that day, don’t blame Tshisekedi, or even God, but yourselves.

Bruno

Anonymous said...

My apologies to Anonymous,February 1,2012 10:40 am,I could not help but use your pertinent post on this Blog without your permission to illustrate the sad state of affairs in the East as a response to Chuchuru of Goma.
Anonymous said...
Hello, I just wanted to comment on the pro-Kabila post saying there is no political crisis in the DRC. I live in Eastern DRC, a place where war has never stopped, and hundreds of thousands are today living an internal displacement situation because of this. More than 10 years after the official ending of the war, can you please develop as to where you see success here? Just a few indicators that it has all been a vast joke:
- Countless armed groups still exist in the DRC, some Congolese (various Mayi Mayi groups including ones that grew much stronger these last years like the Yakutumba faction), some foreigners with the Burundian FNL in Uvira and Fizi, the FDLR everywhere, the LRA around Province Orientale.
- FARDC soldiers are still the largest perpetrators of Human Rights violations in eastern DRC.
- Most of the FARDC troops are made of Rwandophones, mainly Tutsis, as most non rwnadophones were taken away from commanding structures with the recent regimentation process.
- In Bukavu, people live with the daily fear of seing the attackers and rapists of the 2004 Nkunda-Mutebutsi attacks in control of their towns. Each anti-Kabila demonstration was prevented by serious threats made by this group.
- In North Kivu, after the ex-CNDP gained military and political constrol of Rutshuru and Masisi, ethnic based assassinations have never been so numerous.
- Most mines in South Kivu are today controlled by Amani Leo soldiers, rwandophones in their vast majority, who are more concerned about their illegal business with Rwanda (see recent arrests) than with the security of the country.
- As I am speaking, many non rwandophone FARDC troops are deserting in order to join dissident troops in South Kivu.
- Rwandan troops are more than ever present in North Kivu, carrying political assassinations out.
Of course, all this is not visible in Kinshasa, a town that has never experienced war other than the few days of fighting between Kabila and Bemba in 2007. However, the majority of the Congolese population lives in Eastern DRC. Anonymous, if you are satisfied with these so called "improvements" for your country after more than 10 years of so called stabilization, it shows you are no patriot, and rather looking at your very own belly button. You probably are one of the few thousands, in a country of +60 million people, to benefit from Kabila's corruption, lack of political understanding and vision, and clearly too close relation with neighbor Rwanda. We are talking about a man who is not even capable of bringing light to the real circumstances that lead to the assassination of his own father, and who is happy with tens of innocents spending time for this, while the real guilty ones are in power holding positions in the DRC and in Rwanda.
Maybe you should come and see the heart of the problem on the field, where people are suffering, and come out the "the Rais's" palace in Kinshasa before making strong opinions on people who try to bring light to a scandalous situation.
February 1, 2012 10:44 AM

Anonymous said...

There are two competing factions, all from the East of the country, vying for power and the control of the DRC in today’s DRC political tragedy. There is first, the North East faction under the influence of our neighbors to the East who have expansionist intentions and have ambitions to colonize the North East of the DRC with the help of corrupt, blind, clueless politicians and DRC citizens who think like Chuchuru of Goma. Then there is the South East faction who for some reason in my eyes is loosing the fight as this faction seems to be the only one loosing its brain power, manpower. I will site two examples out of many, Samba Kaputo, an “eminence grise” in his own right, in 2007 after the 2006 election. Today the “eminence grise” by excellence, Katumba Mwanke dies after another election, coincidence???? Another big player, John Numbi seems to have been neutralized by the Chebeya affair and replaced by someone who is from the NorthEast. The South East faction politicians should be asking themselves some serious questions as it seems that they are actually been marginalized. As a former student of College Saint Francois (College Imara) like Katumba Mwanke, I would like to extend my condolences to his loved ones, may God’s Peace be with them in this difficult times.
As always respect to Bruno for your posts as they are always to the point.
Bismark

Anonymous said...

many take for granted that katumba was forever skimming for his personal enrichment. i ask out of curiosity, but, accepting the idea that he did skim, why couldn't he have been skimming on behalf of pprd or kabila or something along those lines? why is it viewed entirely in terms of his personal aggrandizement. to be sure, these aren't mutually exclusive, but it seems logical to me that he'd be passing on a good portion to his political masters....

Anonymous said...

@ Bruno
For your long message, my reply is short.
"No matter how a cow is black, it always give a white milk" Just read it three times, you will find the answer.
You are on the same side of the coin where Tshisekedi is appearing.
Democracy gave us a chance to support or oppose, where is your problem if i oppose Tshisekidi?!
Exactly you are reflecting the same mentality of Tshi(Sometimes i think it Tshisekidi who is blogging on the name of Bruno)
I support neither JK nor Tshi, but i abhorrence Tshi.
I am proud to be from Eastern part of Congo just because it is where the wave came from to clear Mubuto to hell.
Another thing i noticed from your tale is that why you keep on saying "an American friend said..., a diplomat said.... From all Intelligent Congolese all over the world, you do not have even one who knows how to say about Congo..., that is our problem - we still listen or believe others! A pilot from USA, a saying from diplomat,..... God knows where we will end!

One more saying not from USA or diplomat but from Congo "a water makes its own level" Read it five times, you will find what i mean.

Churuchuru
Goma

Anonymous said...

Graet, churuchuru, couldn't say it better, also applause for anonymous from feb. 17, 9.13 pm. A very good summarize of truth. (signed as February 1, 2012 10:44 AM)

Bismarck, you don't really deserve that name, because the real Bismarck was not only a severe politician, but he gave social-laws to the Germans, that's what he was loved for. But you are surely far away from those intentions. All that ... you say havs nothing to do with the reality of the congolese people, only the old bla-bla-bla, to discouver the truth. The same to Bruno. There is no link from this accident to "tshishi for president" and tshishi is nothing else than a chatterbox. And I say that the power has to come from the eastern Congo, because all the wealthy comes from there and the people in the east have to carry the burden of war and slavery for this. If the People in Kin like to have their own president, they should severe from the east an do their own business. I think, the east doesn't need kinshasa.

Rich said...

Well well well, let's keep tshisekedi out of this; some said... REALLY? replied others. Then one went on and worship the man (tshikas) in not less than a few paragraphs... frankly that made me giggle.

Now I say, yes let leave tshitshi out of this, but not before I post the following comment... Come on the guy says he is the president of the DRC how can we not not invite him in everything involving Congo? I simply can't help it...

Ref # "On my side, I wish J Kabila to be as lucky as ET and live long enough to see his grandchildren...whether in jail or as a free man...."

This is strange! I mean, as if the man (tshitshi) will have to be remembered in terms of how happy he is with his "grand children" and not being in jail alone on top of his 79 or 80 years of age! What a remarkable LEGACY for such a long and noisy political career???


Ref # "Many Easterners intellectuals will wake up the day it’s too late. And that day, don’t blame Tshisekedi, or even God, but yourselves..."

What's wrong with "many easterners intellectuals"? Are they bad simply because they do not worship tshisekedi or consume tshisekedi's inexhaustive blunders?

In all fairness it looks to me that Easterners have achieved more in terms of organising their regions, than many other Congolese. And it is only fair to admit that the war is not their making but a situation provoked by a combination of many factors that are beyond the control of easterners.

I say this because I can see more farms, plantation fields cattle etc... all private initiatives from "easteners" in eastern regions than there are in regions where most of the tshisekedists 'intellectuals' and followers come from...

By the way I heard from sources close to Limete that tshitshi has ordered for Eugenie tshisekedi (his younger sister) who is now an elected MP and went to the opening ceremony, tshitshi I wasaying, ordered she be arrested and brought to him with her hands well tied up with ropes. (QU'ON ME L'AMENE ICI LIGOTE).

Rich

Anonymous said...

@ Chuchuru, Rich

Mine will be shorter.

You were being shown the moon, you're looking at the finger.

Bruno

Anonymous said...

@Chuchuru of Goma

I would like to remind you that it is Bismark(ark) not Bismarck(arck), two different entities, pay attention. No where in my post do I claim to emulate the Chancellor. So I am puzzled by the comparison. This could be a good illustration of this generalization that says that “Congolese are certainly intelligent, but not pertinent” mentioned by Bruno. Chancellor Otto Von Bismarck was certainly a great man in the history of Germany but what is the pertinence to my post, how does this fact relate to what I said in my post, where is the relevance. You say this about my humble person, “you are surely far away from those intentions.” I suppose Bismarck’s??? I did not express any intentions( I did not tell you what I wanted to do in my post) I expressed an opinion on what I perceive as being a conflict between two factions from the East of the DRC(what I called North East faction and South East faction) for power and leadership in the DRC. I was expecting you to address these points and not to talk about Chancellor Otto von Bismarck. You are entitled to hate, abhor ET as much as you want if that is your cup of tea but the reality for the Congolese people in the East is well summarized in the post of a person who claims to be from the East like you check Anonymous from Feb. 17, 9.13 AM. (signed as February 1, 2012 10:44 AM). This is the reality in the North East, our neighbor to the east controls the whole area and the country is under occupation(the moon) but you choose to spend your time hating ET(the finger) which you are entitled to. You continue by saying some nonsensical things like…” I say that the power has to come from the eastern Congo, because all the wealthy comes from there and the people in the east have to carry the burden of war and slavery for this. If the People in Kin like to have their own president, they should severe from the east an do their own business. I think, the east doesn't need kinshasa.” You apparently do not know how wealthy the DRC is in terms of natural resources, the wealth is everywhere. By the way is the population in the East enjoying any of the wealth that you are talking about? Some people from the DRC can also tell you that “frankly we are tired of having our country being held hostage by the North East situation and that the DRC’s bad luck comes from these areas and that it started with the arrival of the AFDL, the vehicle through which the occupation of the DRC started” ….what would you say to that???? Be smart about what you write. The DRC citizens today, need to be together more than never before, this is what will save our nation. There are many DRC citizens who strongly believe that there are factors out there pointing to the fact that our country is slipping away from us. Like Bruno said “you were being shown the moon but you were looking at the finger”. Try pointing your finger 3, 4, 5 times at the moon on a nice full moon night may be you will get it and see the moon and not the finger. Look at the big picture man if you can.

Bismark(ark) not Bismarck(arck)

Anonymous said...

Bismark,

My hat off to you for this nice try, although I'm growing more and more disheartened/skeptical that our brothers are just too overwhelmed by hatred and emotions to realize that what's at stake here is not about the political forturnes of an individual but rather the survival of our land as an independent nation.

Oh my God, may You save my country from its "intellectuals" !

Bruno

Rich said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rich said...

Bruno -

Ref # "You were being shown the moon, you're looking at the finger..."

Yes Bruno, in fact I can see there is a big bright "moon" at Petunias/Limete, another one (bright moon) in the life of UDPS let alone the one (bright moon) shining above Kabeya Kamwanga... In other words, tshisekedi is indeed the light that failed to shine in his own life; no wonder why it is so difficult for the rest of us to see much beyond his two fingers (the famous V sign).

By the way, it would have been fair and honest to quote Felix Wazekwa "Mokuwa Bongo" since he is the rigtful author of the short sentence you used in your last post. Look the so humble Jason did it when he quoted Koffi Olomide on top of this blog. Just a thought...

Rich

blaise said...

@ Rich,
" I can see more farms, plantation fields cattle etc... all private initiatives from "easteners" in eastern regions than there are in regions where most of the tshisekedists 'intellectuals' and followers come from..."
I'm just curious about where you get those data from. Unless things drastically changed, this is how it works: " those in charge will use their fire powers to acquire wealth.As they get wealthier, they will purchase legit businesses to diversify their income". It's never fail, it was true under Mobutu, it's true under Kabila. It's a mafia, check those proprieties and I can bet with you that they all belongs to 2% of those you call easterners.
I agree with you that there is a failure from other to be as well organised. That what I point out to Bismark in some other discussions and my wondered was why the opposition didn't take their cue from successful resistance movements.
I believe that in politic one has to know how to compromise and broker alliances. Power come from the people and allegiances is the result of leverages.

blaise said...

@ Rich,
one more thing, you may know why a part of Kigali is called "coltancity or merci congo"? I don't think it's just because the Rwanda's regime is well organised. I know that a lot of people just see Kagame as a ruthless leader who will stop from anything to meet his goals.
Beside this aspect, we forget that he is a Machiavellian strategist, he knows what he tried to achieve and how to achieve it. All I can tell is that people are running from their lands because of assassinations and insecurity. Who benefits from massacres, displacements and lawlessness in the East? If they are so organized as you said, how come they cannot buy their way to be protected? Where is this Cosa Nostra?

Anonymous said...

Bismark, not Bismarck

Sorry, it was not Chuchuru but me, anonymus but really not chuchuru, who postet that with Bismarck!

Anonymus, not chuchuru

Rich said...

Blaise -

You made an interesting point.

"I'm just curious about where you get those data from. Unless things drastically changed, this is how it works:"

I talk from first hand experience.

Before I explain a bit more let me say that when I said farms, plantation field or organised provinces, I did not mean "mafia" or wealth of the powerful etc... I meant hard working Congolese and intellectuals who make their living by working to produce for their own consumption as well as supplying big consumption centers such as Kinshasa, Lumbashi, Mbuji mayi etc...

In this respect there are provinces that are well reknown for their productivity in terms of food and if you know the DRC and its food consumption patterns you may not need any data to confirm that; for instance, the great Kivu produces more food than the great Kasais. In other words, you will find more farms, plantation fields etc... in the great Kivu than there are in Kasai. Trust me I am not being biased here...

In fact I lived in places like Goma, Bukavu, Kisangani, Matadi, Mbuji Mayi, Kananga, Lubumbashi, Kinshasa etc... and it is a fact that when you go, for instance, in any market in Kinshasa, you can see food products coming from different places in the DRC and the great Kivu have always been the biggest provider of vegetables and many other food (sweet potatoes, potatoes, cow meat, fresh bins, cabbage, onions etc...) go to specialised markets like Type K, or even Zando, in Kinshasa to witness that.

Another example, when you want to buy a goat or a mouton for meat in Kinshasa, you can go to Mariano market and get goats from Bas Congo. when you want palm oil we know regions that produce it and supply places like Kinshasa... smoked fish and many other types of fish in the market of Ndolo (avenue flambeau or libongo Onatra) coming from Equateur, Province Orientale etc... the list is non exhaustive and as you can see I was talking from experience and would not be surprised if there are data out there to confirm this.

Now, to avoid me getting too biased, can you tell me of any food products well sold on any market in DRC that comes from, say, the two Kasais?

I am not generalising and I know some will take offense from what I am saying but you asked me a question and it is only legitimate that I explain what I meant. I also wanted to emphasise the fact that I am open and more than ready to learn from others who may know more about food products, farming and plantation field in the DRC.

I have been in a train trip, Lubumbashi-Ilebo, more than four weeks in the way; Lubumbashi-Dilolo, more than two weeks in the way and I could see how trade was operating between various areas of the country and that trend has remained the same for years. I have been in the Bakwandianga market or indeed SIMIS market in Mbuji Mayi there again it is easy to see the origins and trading patterns of some of the products in sale there...

As for Kigali and kagame, I was not talking about them though you may have an interesting case to make about them.

Sorry I know this is all over the place but I tried my best after a very busy day to answer some of your questions.

Rich

blaise said...

@ Rich,
Don't get me wrong, I was not trying to offend you or call you bias at all.I'm not from the kasais, I just saw a fallacy that I felt wasn't entirely correct. Like some says a text out of it's context is a pretext.
The great Kivus have been traditionally farmlands even before Mobutu.Culturally, the source of wealth in the East is cattle. If you go to the Equator and want people to work, you better bring beer. The great Kasai and Katanga always as been minerals provinces, you will see more people engages in mining than farming,will you blame them? If you look at the agricultural inputs from those latter provinces, they will have less farms because they are not used to that. Is it a good thing? Not at all.
The point I'm trying to make is: is not because there is a lot of farms in the Kivus than anywhere else that necessary mean they are better organized. For me it means that those in power are on some buying spree in the Kivus to secure lands for exploitation. From what they said, the reason Katumba was going to Idjwi was to purchase some lands(not for himself).
We all know how Tango fort is getting rich, look for general Nzau testimony before he join the ALC.
My question is again: how do you know that all those produce come from honest congolese and not from this mafia or even the FDLR? From what is reported people are fleeing the east every day. Which honest person will invest in a farm without political and military connections? I don't said they all have one but maybe somebody in Goma can tell us what's going on there. I don't see how people will invest in insecurity unless they control that insecurity. I just join Kigali here to point out that network of exploitation supervise by Bosco . It is not just the Coltan that is smuggled out.
I didn't have any doubt about Tshisekedi chances. People has to be realistic, with poor grassroots organization and uncoordinated actions, the UDPS has no chance to get his point across. They seems not to know how to hurt their opponents.

Anonymous said...

@ BLAISE
I just visited Kigali 12 months ago ,and there is no place in Kigali Called COLTAN CITY or MERCI CONGO in the intire RWANDA. Saying that The peoples of KASAI ... Are not involved in farming because they are in mining ,just demonstrate how little you know or understand the Grand KIVU. Peoples in the Grand Kivus ,from GOMA to KALIMA in the MANIEMA have always combine agriculture with mining , and unlike in the Kasai where the only mining activity is diamond relate and is limited to only some parts of kasai, there is GOLD and CASSITERITE...in all areas of the Grand Kivus from GOMA in the north FIZI in the south all the way To KASONGO in MANIEMA. and before the booming of COLTAN ,peoples of the Kivus have always combine mining with farming. Bosco Ntaganda may have some involvement in somme mining mafia in the Ruchuru and GOMA area but the way you talk about him is like if he owns The intire GRANG KIVUS like King Léopold 2 did own the Congo. The KIVU is a very big province and the CNDP rebel movement was only present in the Randofone ereas of RUCHURU and MASISI but you talk like if the intire Eastern Congo is under the Control of NTAGANDA or the CNDP. This is the reason why the UDPS the MLC and most western Congoles Politiciens will always been doomed in the East ,because theire knowledge of Congo sims to be limited to Kin and KASAI, and despite having grown-up in TANZANIA ,KABILA sims to Understand the Congo more than his opponents.

Anonymous said...

With over 90 % of Congoles MINERAL wealth...and over 60% of its Population in the SWAHILI speaking East ,and having sacrificed so much in blood for that country ,i only wonder what the policians and peuples of eastern Congo need KINSHASA or the rest of that country for. If the 5 rich SWAHILI PHONE provinces of KATANGA, NORTH and SOUTH KIVUS ,MANIEMA and PROVINCE ORIENTALES can unite and break away from the Congo ,it will be the and of all the trubles in central Africa ,and the birth of a new nation that can bring prosperity to its peuples and its naighbors. Militarily or democratically (by refferendum) the Swahiliphones are now able of doing this,but i wonder what has been stopping peoples to start prepairing for that promised land called the SWAHILILAND.

blaise said...

@ anonymous FEBRUARY 20, 2012 3:49 AM,
thank you for your insight, I appreciate that you corrected my mistakes.
- There is no place in Kigali with this name because it's a moniker, not an official name. It was given as a joke. Maybe you visited Nyarutarama's quarter? Because that's the place.
- I have no pretension of knowing the great Kivus as you do, all I know is that before the coltan, the Kivus was well know for his farming then his mining,like people in Texas used to be rangers before the petrole boom. Unless I'm mistaken, owning farms and cattle is still a sign of wealth. Am I wrong?
- In the Kasai, I never heard people involved in farming like that. First the province was forbidden to non Congolese. Secondly some people emigrated to Katanga. they just don't farm like in the Kivus. Are you guys still farming that much with the coltan's boom?
- I don't think Bosco own the Kivus like Leo,lol, that was a overstatement. He got influence in the north and maybe trying to go south. He is just the puppet, his master control more puppets, maybe you are satisfy with the situation, that's fine with me
- Kabila understand the Congo? That's funny, maybe that why we have less problems then before.lol
Bottom line: I'm not trying to tell you what going on in your province, you probably know better than me. My point was that we should not advance statement based on what we feel. Maybe I was guilty of that too so my apology if I offended you, I just said what I thought made more sense.

blaise said...

@ anonym FEBRUARY 20, 2012 4:36 AM
that no sense my friend, the Pnud published a rapport around 2001 and according to their field study any single province in the country is potentially rich. Breaking away won't solve your problems. From what I see, your problems come from your eastern neighbors not kinshasa.
At least Mobutu showed us that together we can be one. We are going backward with that stupid " president from the East, pm from the west" .
Why did Khonde was elected? Maybe n=because a lot of people don't think like you.

Anonymous said...

@ Rich,

Ref: "it would have been fair and honest to quote Felix Wazekwa "Mokuwa Bongo" since he is the rigtful author of the short sentence"...

Did I ever claim ownership of the sentence? You know why I indeed partially quoted Wazekwa without even mentioning his name?

Out of the same decency that kept you from quoting the full sentence: I actually refused to have a word "zoba" taint my post...Anyway,Rich, I doubt you're the right professor to lecture me on intellectual honesty...

But again, that saying of Wazekwa has a very valid point you seem not to be getting: for some serious matters, please don't focus on the trivial or the epiphenomenom, try instead to get the core substance and ponder over it.

1) I wished JK to be as lucky as ET and see his grandchildren, I was rubbishing the age argument against ET that some Kabilists have flinging around: I was pointing at the "moon".

In your reply, you completely missed the point by switching the subject to ET's legacy which according to you was only his grandchildren and him not being in jail: you were looking at the "finger".

2) I hinted that the eyes of many Eastern intellectuals supporting JK will probably open up until when JK’s disastrous policy in the Eastern DRC has yielded its vile fruits beyond recovery and the territorial integrity of the country is compromised forever: I was pointing at the "moon".

Your response: are Eastern intellectuals bad simply because they do not worship Tshisekedi? Then this sent you lurching in a scorching terrain pretending that Easterners are allegedly more organized than the rest of Congolese because they have “more farms, plantation fields cattle etc...” My friend: you were looking at the "finger".

3) I reported a quote that “Congolese are certainly intelligent, but not pertinent”. The author of this quote was pointing at the "moon".

Chuchuru, not you actually, reacted by complaining that I was not quoting somebody from the same skin color as you (I assume) and me: he was looking at the “finger”.

Given the above, I could rightfully conclude you and Chuchuru were being shown the moon, you're looking at the finger"!

(to be continued)

Bruno

Anonymous said...

(continued)

Now, I won’t weigh in the completely irrational if irrelevant debate about the level of organization of Easterner/Westerner Congolese based on the number of farms, plantations, cattle or the amount of food they produce. Blaise has quite properly taken care of it. I’m quite attuned to the divisive tone and partisanship of this topic. That’s not what we need for the moment. What I’d humbly propose is that we who claim to be among our country’s intellectual elite again look at the “moon” after we learn from the media that this British writer Judith Ammanthis has reportedly made the following accusation against her government about the crisis in Eastern DRC: (indirect quote)

‘The British government and media have turned a blind eye to the severe crisis taking place in the central African nation, because the crisis in Congo is of no interest to UK government and media, and surprisingly they are happy with the violence occurring in the country…

‘President Joseph Kabila has been strongly supported by the western governments, as his People's Party for Reconstruction and Democracy was responsible for militarizing the mining industry, and continued to sell off the Congolese owned mining assets to western firms, specially to UK-based mining company, Eurasian Natural Resources Corporation, that has profited greatly from the situation in Congo.

‘As long as the British firms are exploiting the country’s oil and minerals including tin, tantalum, tungsten, Britain will ignore the humanitarian crisis such as child labor, slave labor, mass rape and the massacre of children, she also stressed.’
(end of quote)

Now, please let’s not look at the “finger” and question the pertinence of this statement based only on her skin color or other trivial epiphenomena. If we're to help our country move forward, let's begin by being accustomed to having discussions based on real substance (is her statement true? if yes, then what should be the consequences?).

Bruno

Rich said...

Bruno -

Ref # "Did I ever claim ownership of the sentence?"

Who knows? I can trust what you say now but at the same time I think I had to right to highlight that since some readers who never came across the saying assumed it was yours!

Ref # "Now, please let’s not look at the “finger” ..."

You started your recent comments by treating people for being stupid "zoba" (which I will neither confirm nor deny). You then went on to call some of the same people "we who claim to be among our country’s intellectual elite" (which I am not)... that is strange.

You also said, quote,

"I’m quite attuned to the divisive tone and partisanship of this topic..."

Unless you have problems with your memory but re-read this thread and with a bit of luck you should be able to locate the following comment; quote,

"Many Easterners intellectuals will wake up the day it’s too late. And that day, don’t blame Tshisekedi, or even God, but yourselves..."(Bruno,February 17, 2012 7:21 AM).

When you started talking about "Many Easterners intellectuals" who are late to see your "moon", you were not being "divisive" or "partisan"; now others are extending on it they become divisive and partisan! Is that a new version of double standard? Very strange indeed!

Now you say you are 'humbly' proposing people to change the topic... I hope you expect your 'intellectual elite' to follow your humbly proposed idea! I find that very strange too.

I think the problem with your famous moon(s) is that you and tshithsi have so many times put so many fingers in the air that are probably obstructing/distracting/preventing... people from seeing where exactly your obscure moon(s) is (are).

To finish, let me reassure you that I'm quite happy not to see your moon(s) since I may already be living in one (a moon).

Do I need to say I find the whole thing about the famous "moon" very SUBJECTIVE and IRRELEVANT in order to render my sarcasm more obvious?

@ Anon February 20, 2012 3:49 AM

Though I try not to get lost with some "Anononymous" messages I just wanted to say thanks for making it clear to Blaise that in many parts of our country, farming and food production have always been combined with mining.

Blaise -

Ref # "In the Kasai, I never heard people involved in farming like that. First the province was forbidden to non Congolese..."

I hope Anon will come to address some of your questions but I wanted to say I find the claim above a bit naive and confusing.

Are you trying to say, "non-Congolese" are the ones who have the duty to help Kasai to focus on farming and food production? REALLY?

My dad worked for a mining company and he invested most of his savings in houses, lands and small plantation fields. When he retired he kept busy with his projects building his houses, farming and working in the fields now even if he's already past away and that he did not get his pension, I can confirm that my mum never complained of not having enough food in the house and she still can provide even for the extended family in a similar way my dad used to when he was still alive. As you can see, there is no mafia money or indeed non-Congolese involved to help my family to become self sufficient in terms of food production. I think there are many families like mine in various parts of the DRC but it is a fact that in some provinces people simply did not see the importance of food production in the same way as this was seen in other provinces.

I don't know if you read the article about the consumption of dog meat in one of the DRC regions. Here is the link to the article:

http://radiookapi.net/actualite/2012/02/11/kasai-oriental-la-viande-de-chien-se-vend-comme-des-petits-pains-mwene-ditu/

Rich

Anonymous said...

@ to anonymous FEBRUARY 20, 2012 3:49 AM, anonymous FEBRUARY 20, 2012 4:36 AM.

How do you plan to put together your “Swahililand” based on a comment below by Anonymous from Feb. 17, 9.13 AM. (signed as February 1, 2012 10:44 AM). This is the reality in the North East:
More than 10 years after the official ending of the war, can you please develop as to where you see success here? Just a few indicators that it has all been a vast joke:
- Countless armed groups still exist in the DRC, some Congolese (various Mayi Mayi groups including ones that grew much stronger these last years like the Yakutumba faction), some foreigners with the Burundian FNL in Uvira and Fizi, the FDLR everywhere, the LRA around Province Orientale.
- FARDC soldiers are still the largest perpetrators of Human Rights violations in eastern DRC.
- Most of the FARDC troops are made of Rwandophones, mainly Tutsis, as most non rwnadophones were taken away from commanding structures with the recent regimentation process.
- In Bukavu, people live with the daily fear of seing the attackers and rapists of the 2004 Nkunda-Mutebutsi attacks in control of their towns. Each anti-Kabila demonstration was prevented by serious threats made by this group.
- In North Kivu, after the ex-CNDP gained military and political constrol of Rutshuru and Masisi, ethnic based assassinations have never been so numerous.
- Most mines in South Kivu are today controlled by Amani Leo soldiers, rwandophones in their vast majority, who are more concerned about their illegal business with Rwanda (see recent arrests) than with the security of the country.
- As I am speaking, many non rwandophone FARDC troops are deserting in order to join dissident troops in South Kivu.
- Rwandan troops are more than ever present in North Kivu, carrying political assassinations out.”
Of course, all this is not visible in Kinshasa, a town that has never experienced war other than the few days of fighting between Kabila and Bemba in 2007. However, the majority of the Congolese population lives in Eastern DRC. Anonymous, if you are satisfied with these so called "improvements" for your country after more than 10 years of so called stabilization,” it shows you are no patriot, and rather looking at your very own belly button. You probably are one of the few thousands, in a country of +60 million people, to benefit from Kabila's corruption, lack of political understanding and vision, and clearly too close relation with neighbor Rwanda. We are talking about a man who is not even capable of bringing light to the real circumstances that lead to the assassination of his own father, and who is happy with tens of innocents spending time for this, while the real guilty ones are in power holding positions in the DRC and in Rwanda. Maybe you should come and see the heart of the problem on the field, where people are suffering, and come out the "the Rais's" palace in Kinshasa before making strong opinions on people who try to bring light to a scandalous situation”.
It will be nice of you If you could give us a way forward as far as how to put together the “Swahililand” under the current conditions in the Swahili world in the East of the DRC.
Bismark

Anonymous said...

Some questions about the plane crash:
Researching several articles on the plane crash and Mwanke give rise to the following questions:
1. There is suspicion the plane crash was a choice as an assassination of Mwanke because no one can point fingers.
2. The plane made an unusually steep descent .
3. Why did such an experienced pilot not make a pass and attempt another landing?
4. Can information related in a post above be verified “after the crash, both pilots were alive but seriously injured and that an unidentified man killed them instantly?”
5. Was there a black box on the jet?
An elder statesman, two honorable, decent United States citizens and two innocent farmers were killed in this horrible tragedy. The pilots must have known the risk of their employment was great. The fact does not excuse suspected murder. The sanctity of human life trumps politics – The United States should not allow a shroud be placed on this tragedy. The United States and the U.N. are honor bound to investigate this horrible crash. If stories are true that Mwanke squirrelled monies from illicit mineral rights dealings, DR Congo needs to recupe those funds to aid in improving DR Congo airport transportation systems.

blaise said...

@ Rich,
confusing?
To develop a region, it's not just farming and artisanal mining that compt, you need foreign investment as well specially if your state doesn't provide the rest. I was trying to address the fact that maybe the kasai weren't expose to foreign investors in other sectors of their economy that why their farming is still artisanal.
don't be ridiculous, Dog meat really? You know there is no cat and dog in south Korea streets, is that the reason they are behind?

Anonymous said...

Can someone help? I have been wondering if some of the reasons behind the fact that some regions of the DRC are more prone to agricultural activities than others are due to the following: - 1) Population density, everyone says that the North East is the most populous of the DRC (even after the loss of 6 million people, my apologies for mentioning this, it is just for the sake of the argument) thus the need to develop agriculture on a bigger scale to feed the masses for survival. - 2) The inheritance of the Belgian colonial patterns of agricultural development with the North East with temperate weather, its volcanic and rich soil allowing for multiple yearly yields and harvests more suitable for agricultural activity. – 3) The fact that in other areas of the DRC people were simply planting the necessary crops for the family and may the clan and the excess being used for trade.

@Blaise

You did not have to apologies to anonymous FEBRUARY 20, 2012 3:49 AM, anonymous FEBRUARY 20, 2012 4:36 AM. This entity did not correct your mistakes as you correctly stated and defended your points. This entity wants the balkanization, the breaking apart of the DRC based on some nonsensical notion of creating a Swahili land (May be he is talking about an “Our neighbors to East land”).This entity talks about “…..the birth of a new nation that can bring prosperity to its peoples and its neighbors. Militarily or democratically (by referendum) the Swahili phones are now able of doing this, but I wonder what has been stopping peoples to start preparing for that promised land called the SWAHILILAND”…... Now, my question is, who is going to be the beneficiary of such an act of treason, is it the people in the East who are presently suffering under a direct and indirect occupation and domination by our neighbors to the East. This entity wants “….to bring prosperity to its neighbors” in a new country called Swahili land????...... Who is this entity/ person who is wishing for the disappearance of his own country unless he is not from the said country??? . If he is a DRC citizen advocating for the breaking apart of the DRC by taking away the part of the DRC that is considered by many as being under occupation, he can only be called a “COLLABO”. This entity wonders “…. what has been stopping peoples to start preparing for that Promised Land called the SWAHILILAND”….Promised by who or whom? The answer to what is stopping peoples is very simple. It is because the people in the East, if this entity does not know, are first (foremost) and last Congolese and nothing else. They believe strongly in their hearts that they belong to a geographical space/ entity and nation called the DR Congo warts and all. They are the sons and daughters of Mother Congo in all her parts, East, West, North, South and Center. I know that civility is a must as we exchange ideas on this blog and try to learn from each other. Advocating the balkanization of the DRC through the creation of “Swahili land and other specious arguments can only come from an enemy of the people of the DRC. @ Blaise there was no need to say “… I appreciate that you corrected my mistakes”…. There were no mistakes on your part. The DRC has been blessed by Nature with mineral wealth and other types of wealth everywhere. Most of us do not know the extent of these blessings. As the consciousness, awareness of what the DRC is to Congolese grows in their mind the nation will prevail.

Bismark

Rich said...

Blaise -

Ref # "I was trying to address the fact that maybe the kasai weren't expose to foreign investors in other sectors of their economy that why their farming is still artisanal..."

Meaning, if many people in the east are farming or work in their own small fields they have been exposed to, quote, "foreign investors in other sectors of their economy..."? I simply fail to see examples to support that claim...

Ref # "don't be ridiculous..."

Do you really need to trade belittling adjectives to validate your points?

Ref # "You know there is no cat and dog in south Korea streets..."

I had no doubt in my head this will offend some but from what you've just said, I can see that you focussed more on the word "dog" than anything else in the article comprising 5 paragraphs...

By the way, I did not write the article but from what I read, and I must confess I'm quite convinced with the facts reported in it, the cause of this problem is well explained in paragraph 3 of the same article...

So let's just calm down and see how each of us can make a positive difference in his/her own merite in that country.

Rich

Anonymous said...

By the way, I would like to know how we got to a culinary interlude where dog meat consumption is a subject. I once saw “sauté” dog meat on the menu in a Chinese restaurant in Guangzhou. People eat horse meat; cat meat… actually people all over the world eat anything that swims, flies, crawls, jumps, walks on 2 or 4 legs….. To each is own, as long as it is good for their health. By the way, would any one care for any one for the following dishes on are menu today, "Cuisses de grenouille suspendus au plafond" or "Cerveau de veau au citron de champagne" or "Macaque a la sauce gombo fourmis", any one??? Enjoy.....

Anonymous said...

@ Rich,
I apology, I meant the argument not you were ridiculous. I didn't read the article, I was just taking aback by the jump from farming to dog meat.
"I don't know if you read the article about the consumption of dog meat in one of the DRC regions. Here is the link to the article:

http://radiookapi.net/actualite/2012/02/11/kasai-oriental-la-viande-de-chien-se-vend-comme-des-petits-pains-mwene-ditu/ "

By the way, I'm not offended at all. I don't care what people eat or don't eat.
What I'm trying to make you realize is that unless you conducted a survey of the whole country you cannot just speculate about why x does this or not.
There is small farmers everywhere! Some more than others. Did you went to every single locality in the Kasai to determine that nobody farm there? How many farmers are in the East? What is their input in the national GDP? What all those lazy and desorganized people from kasai do with their money? buying dogs meat maybe?lol, just kidding.
That was my point.
Here is the list of agricultural inputs of the country
http://www.afribiz.info/content/democratic-republic-of-congo-top-agricultural-products-2008
I bet everything come from the East.
It's economy 101, small farming or small mining have marginal impact in the economy. It's large scale farming or mining that makes the difference. Who bring those investments? Not the local. Hence my argument about the probable history of the Kasai. AlllI know it's a little simplistic to assume that because there is no farms at x locations that means they are nbot organised. That was the fallacy I was agaisnt.
I'm sincerely sorry if I offended you by any means. That wasn't my purpose. I don't like myself those ad hominem attacks.
Blaise

Anonymous said...

One more thing, we should not take a couple of examples or so and making them into a general rule. There is a lot of people who works for the mining industry and never made it for one reason or another. All I know, the majority of congolese live with less than a dollar a day. Is that makes them lazy? I don't think so. People make money, lose it, it's a life cycle. Some are more savyy than others.
And like they said, the exception just confirm the rule, not necessary contradict it.
I just urge people to bring factual data when they want to demonstrate trends.
Blaise

Anonymous said...

The peoples of EASTERN Congo have gained nothing,and have lost everything for being Part of this country called Congo. The peoples of western Congo do not and will never view Easterners as Brothers.and if all the Congo Riches ...where in the west most westerns will be fighting TO break away from the Congo. The 7 years Rwandan and UGANDAN occupation of Eastern Congo was supported by western Congoles and Kasaiens(JP Bemba,Kengo,Lumbala,even CHISEKEDI....)and during that period we did not see this outrage from the Lubas and lingala diaspora like we are seing nowadays angainst KABILA. Most Easterners where supporting KABILA or The may may freedom fighters,and all westerns where Directly or inderectely supporting that occupation through the MLC or the various RCD groupes ,and CHISEKEDI did not hid his support for that occupation in fact he called the Rwandan RCD groupe a Congoles movement of libaration and he even Joined Ruberwa in opposition against the SUNCITY peace deal that led to the departure of foreign troupes. Most peoples in the East understand that the Congo is in this situation because for over 3 decades the Country was under mismanagement and destroyed buy the Mobutu clic from EQUATEURE and theire BALUBAS from KASAI who dominate many sectors of the Mobutu regime(second republic )and they have nothing more to offer. Eastern Congo will be better of breaking away from the Congo than being part of that Country.i have a question for all Easterners. What have you got from KASAI,EQUATEURE,BAS CONGO,...? For how long are you going to be paying for new roads ,hospitals...in KINSHASA ,new bridges schools in BAS CONGO.... While your own roads in BUKAVU, KISANGANI, KALIMA,LIKASI ,GOMA ,KALEMI,LUBUMBASHI...are crumbling and disappearing .how long more sleep do you need before you wake up to reality.

blaise said...

@ anonym FEBRUARY 20, 2012 12:28 PM,
- the AFDL with Kabila, brought Uganda and Rwanda first, not the RCD.
- Kabila put James K. as chief of staff and sent most of the remaining faz to die in bas-congo
- M. kongolo said they rearmed the FDLR to stop the RCD
- the Mlc was based in Equator and had a semi belligerence relation with the RCD
- Lubumbashi is cleaner than kinshasa
- Kamerhe lost his position because he criticized Kabila's decision to bring back Rwanda
- The FARDC are loyal to Kabila.
Question :
-is there peace now with Kabila in charge?
-how do those evil people from the west are supporting your martyrdom?
- what was build with your money exactly?( witch hospital, school, roads?)

Anonymous said...

Let me remind you one thing...

DR Congo has a literacy rate around 70% with more boys in school than girls. The male literacy rate is about 80% with female literacy rate around 50%

The deadly HIV/AIDS continues to tear people into pieces in Congo today. The adult HIV/AIDS prevalence rate Is about 5% with about more than 2 million people living with HIV/AIDS. Killer diseases such as malaria, sleeping sickness, typhoid fever, diarrhea, and cholera are very prevalent in this part of the world.

Excessive poaching, deforestation, weak environmental protection laws, bad farming practices, excessive mining,etc. are destroying almost all the wildlife in DR Congo today while natural hazards such periodic droughts, seasonal flooding, volcanic eruptions with the release of poisonous gases, etc. worsen the condition.

Poor sanitation is another major problem facing DR Congo today. The overpopulation in the big cities and towns worsen the situation. Lack of good drinking water and water for domestic purpose remains another major problem facing Congolese today. Many depend on untreated water sources for drinking water and water for domestic purposes which explains the many water-related diseases in DR Congo today.

Corruption is at all time high in DR Congo today. Government officials receive pay increments every now and then while most of the poor especially those in the villages and small towns wallow in extreme poverty and hunger.

Is this the type of Congo we are Proud of? Is this wrath of God or just a blessing from Satan.
Is these happening because of Rwanda,Uganda or ourselves...
Go to Rwanda and see how the country is progressing, i do not mind if Rwanda makes it out of Congo's wealth (it is gone already) but they made it while we are dreaming. How many intelligent Congolese are working for Rwanda... Top Lecturers, Top doctors, top mechanics, top lawyers, top political advisers, top nurses are every where working for Rwanda similar to most of you, doing it in Europe and America.
On the Western part of Rwanda there is a town is called Gisenyi, Neighboring town of Goma, in that city there is a suburb is called RCD - just because the houses were built during RCD period - i appreciate the naming at least for acknowledging where the fund came from. Since the birth of Congo How many countries stolen and disappeared with out even leaving a name?
I think the natural power does not want Congo to be stable just because the people who are benefiting out of Congo are much bigger than those who are dying and suffering!

Swahililand
Goma

Anonymous said...

One step forward, three steps backwards....

Three senior diplomats have resigned from their posts at the Congolese embassy in London and claimed asylum in the UK.

Baby Kazadi Moussonzo, first secretary to the ambassador; Mamie Yaya Efunga, another first secretary; and Kabengele Mamba, second secretary, had between them a total of 14 years service at the London embassy

Who were they?
Who else will follow them?

Churuchuru
Goma

Anonymous said...

@Rich,

“Congolese are certainly intelligent, but not pertinent”.

Thank you for treating us to one of the most perfect illustrations of the truthfulness of this statement as such as the one you provided in your post of February 20, at 7:05 AM . Believe me, you’re unbeatable in that terrain!

A perfect mix of gratuitous accusations which are inches short of flat-out lies, baseless and nonsensical arguments peppered with twisted logic you sarcastically call “my sarcasm”. What a treat!

You basically settled for the McCain debating strategy against Obama in 2008: take his challenger’s arguments, twist them (the initial arguments) and run against them (the distorted arguments).

Rich, it’s usually interesting to debate with you, but when I see no viable path to a rational discussion it’s far preferable for me to sit your sound bites out. Please come back to me next when you’re ready for a higher level exchange, not these wishy-washy wafflers of yours…

Now, let me turn to a far more serious blog from Swahililand (not the dog meat stuff and the like…):

Very interesting points of the plight visited on our brothers in the East, especially . But let me ask a set of (rhetorical) questions: does the Kabila government give it a damn? This government that has turned inaction and reality denial into official stance? For how long again will Mobutu be used as an excuse?

Ref: “Is this the type of Congo we are Proud of? Is this wrath of God or just a blessing from Satan.”

When I ask these questions in other words and castigate (many) Eastern intellectuals for their continued blind support of JK despite the latter’s outright failure to deliver, Rich calls this “divisive”…

Ref: “Go to Rwanda and see how the country is progressing, i do not mind if Rwanda makes it out of Congo's wealth (it is gone already) but they made it while we are dreaming”

But let’s ask ourselves: why are they progressing? Because the top leadership has decided to rein in corruption, not eradicate it –which is next to impossible- but at least bring it down to acceptable levels. That’s the starting point before anything serious can be done in a country. Here in the DRC, we demonize a figurehead politician who has the needed moral authority to curb corruption!

Ref: “I think the natural power does not want Congo to be stable just because the people who are benefiting out of Congo are much bigger than those who are dying and suffering!”

Could not be more true! Let me add salt to your meat by quoting Antonio Guterres’ (the former Portuguese Prime Minister who’s now the head of UNHCR) interview with the Financial Times back in January 2008, and which is still very pertinent:

"Think about the amount of resources that have been taken out of this country. Lots of companies operate in DRC, taking out its resources, in many circumstances, without a minimum respect for any rules. The international community has systematically looted DRC and we should not forget that."

Remember, this is Antonio Guterres speaking!

Bruno

Rich said...

Bruno –

It is often the case when a person who has needlessly inflated opinions of themselves, is asked to clean up their own backyard, they react the way you just did. In other words, I simply tried to show you your own incongruities but once again you failed superbly to refute any of my points. I take it that the points I made are so impertinent when they are not stupide for you ‘my great Congolese elite’ to be able to address them.

I have no doubt you mustn’t be the cleverest/pertinent… man I have ever met on this blog why not on this planet? but it is very easy for you to put people off when, on top of being who you are, you keep telling people how clever/pertinent etc… you are and that you are the only one who knows better the whereabouts of the ‘moon’!

I can see you are disappointed with my posts but trust me that was not my intent I was simply trying to push my luck and see if I can finally be enlightened by your ‘moon’ rather than the many fingers you keep waving in the air. By the way I’m still waiting enthusiastically to check on Amazon and similar places for your book on the wonders of tshisekedi…

Blaise –

Ref # “I apology, I meant the argument not you were ridiculous”

No need to apologise my good friend and as you may know I’m offended at all. I was not complaining I simply wanted to prevent us from drifting into the belittling trap. In other words, we are absolutely FINE and trust me I am not a saint myself.

Now, “I was just taking aback by the jump from farming to dog meat.”

The jump to dog meat was because I wanted to point to the fact that lacking the minimum in terms of food production can be one factor too many that pushes people to adopt certain behaviours that are regarded as ‘weird’ by the majority in a given society. I don’t know about you but where I come from, eating pet animals is seen in an outrage. In any case, who has the moral authority to tell anyone what to eat and what not to eat? However, when this (eating behaviour) is not healthy (they talked about canine rabies in the article) I think it is important that we do not encourage it.

Ref # “Who bring those investments? Not the local.”

Your argument about big scale farming is a valid one and I never argued against that; but here I was simply talking about small scale since such activity can occupy and provide not only food but also remuneration to millions of Congolese. So I’m talking more in terms of surviving than a full on economic impact. Translating that in terms of GDP I am not sure about the impact and that is another debate. All I know is that in 2003 DRC agricultural sector was providing only 1.44% to the national budget. It was hoped that a 10% of public spending into the agricultural sector could help this to grow to up to an annual growth of 6% by 2015…

Ref # “What all those lazy and desorganized people from kasai do with their money?”

It is a fact that there have been lots of cash circulating in Kasais than in any other provinces but we are not quite sure what that cash has ever achieved for that province… not buying dog’s meat and that’s for sure; with that cash people could buy elephants and whales… only joking!

The other problem is that Kasai has been less competitive in terms of the ratio of import and export of agricultural products (maize and rice in particular) into the province.

I can point you to Eric Tollens, (2004) « Les défis: Sécurité alimentaire et cultures de rente pour l'exportation Principales orientations et avantages comparatifs de l’agriculture en R.D.Congo ».

To finish, I suppose, we are all here to learn from one another and I’ve always been encouraged and enlightened to read from you on this blog.

Rich

Anonymous said...

Dear Rich,

"you failed superbly to refute any of my points"...

Do you know why? You descended so low that I refused to annoy other readers of this blog. Refuting a circular reasoning is more and more becoming such a tasteless game!

You know what? we're never met in person but it feels like we'd made great friends: you're so funny...

Bruno

blaise said...

@ Rich,
I believe we finally agree about something: we don't exactly know. Unless we have viable data and maybe sociological studies, all we will do is speculating. Bismark gave some interesting pointers, something to think about.
That was the point I was trying to get across. I confess I went a little overboard,lol, but I just felt that those cliches were outrageous.
I believe we better than that, we may have part of an information and jump on erroneous conclusions, that why we need others to show us others alternative.
Thank you for your insight, that gave me something to think about.

Congoman said...

@Swahililand
I have been TO RWANDA many times, yes Rwanda has always been one of the least corrupt Countrys in Africa but the way you and many supporters of the KAGAME regime are describing the so called new Rwanda,is very untrue and very misleading. Rwanda stil very impoverished country where more than 85% of the population is unemployed, with one of the highest HIV infection rate in Africa,more than 85%of the population stil living in slams or rural areas with no runing water or electricity.yes somme congoles health workers ,teachers ,mécanicien,...work have always work in Rwanda,brazzaville,Angola...not because those Countrys are developped . I so some modern residential neighborhoods being built in Kigali for the Elite, and some new buildings in downtown Kigali,but building some villas with blood money from Congo in country with no modern hospital or health centers,no modern airport,no manufacturing (99%of consumer goods are imported),no modern transposition systems,no free press,with 95% unemployment...does not make Rwanda an an advanced country .when it comes to developpement,Rwanda stil 50 years behind Kenya,30 years behind Tanzania,Zimbabwe,..60 behind Botswana and the list goes on and on ,yet all those Countrys are stil very undeveloped.

Congoman said...

It's time for PEOPLE TO stop comparing Rwanda to north kivu because there is more than North kivu in Congo. Comparing Rwanda TO Congo is like Comparing Georgia TO Russia. Even in the East African region, Rwanda stil lags behind many Countrys when it comes to developpement . The bigest most prosperous economy in east africa is Kenya followed by Tanzania,Ethiopia,and Uganda and Rwanda will never surpass Kenya, Tanzania or Ethiopia to become the bigest economy in east Africa .you can compare Rwanda to an ether small Countrys like Gabon or Equatorial Guinee but both Gabon and Guinee Équatoriale are more Richer,prosperous,and developped than Rwanda. So this new developped Rwanda that everybody is talking about is nothing but propaganda from the Rwandan loby that has been used to cover the war crimes and crimes against humanity that the KAGAME regime has vomited in the DRC.

Anonymous said...

@Congoman

It is Rwanda and Rwandans problem for their underdevelopment!
You have mentioned how Rwanda is behind those African countries however how many years is Congo behind all these countries not forgetting Rwanda?
I am not supporting Kagame at all but i found it easy for me to compare Rwanda because it is a country i saw progressing in front of my naked eyes while Congolese are misunderstanding each other like BRUNO & RICH.

We Congolese are there only to tell a tale which is done by someone else than doing it ourselves.

I have a solution for Congo.
"Change the country in to Anglophone country to adjust the mentality of intellectual Congolese and start fresh!"
If this will not happen in the next 10 years, another surf shall commence from the east to change Congo.

Swahililand
Goma

Rich said...

Swahililand -

Ref # "I am not supporting Kagame at all but i found it easy for me to compare Rwanda because it is a country i saw progressing in front of my naked eyes while Congolese are misunderstanding each other like BRUNO & RICH."

How can you say that there is no misunderstanding in rwanda? Have you checked your assertion with people like Kayumba Nyamwasa, Pasteur Bizimungu, Victoire Ingambire etc....?

Me and my friend Bruno are disagreeing on the approaches to take but never have we threatened from EXTERMINATING (COMMIT GENOCIDE AGAINST) each other as this has been the case in rwanda.

So please, try to compare what is comparable.

No matter what rwanda achieves, they must know that as long as they (the transnational tutsi elite) behave in unscrupulous way in the DRC, their situation will be comparable to that of a person doing rodeo on the back of a wounded lion... (to paraphrase someone). Only God knows what will happen when to that person once they are no longer on the back of that lion...

Rich

Rich said...

Swahililand -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubrx3-7Q-DM&feature=related

Rich

Anonymous said...

@Rich

Rich says : “…No matter what rwanda achieves, they must know that as long as they (the transnational tutsi elite) behave in unscrupulous way in the DRC, their situation will be comparable to that of a person doing rodeo on the back of a wounded lion... (to paraphrase someone). Only God knows what will happen when to that person once they are no longer on the back of that lion...”

Most likely a big and fat breakfast, lunch or dinner for the abused and starving lion.

Rich, Blaise, I am sorry to go back to a subject that you discussed sometimes back. I had raised a few points that I thought contributed to prevalence of agricultural activities in the North East of the DRC and would like your opinions if possible. I was wondering if some of the reasons behind the fact that the North East of the DRC is prone to more organized agricultural activities than others, are based to the following: - 1) Population density, everyone says that the North East is the most populous of the DRC (even after the loss of 6 million people, my apologies for mentioning this, it is just for the sake of the argument) thus the need to develop agriculture on a bigger scale in order to feed the masses for survival. - 2)The inheritance of the Belgian colonial patterns of agricultural development. The North East with temperate weather, volcanic and rich soil allowing for multiple yearly yields, harvests of crops made it more suitable for intense agricultural activity. – 3)The fact that in other areas of the DRC, people were simply planting the necessary crops for their daily needs and may be the needs of clan. The excess crops being used for trade. Thanks for your input.

Bismark

Anonymous said...

Could someone please provide any information regarding the pilots and their condition after the crash? The statement above suggesting that they were both killed by someone after the crash is disturbing. Has anyone heard anything regarding this? Thank you.

Anonymous said...

@ Rich,Congoman.....

The Genocide in Rwanda helped Congo for a change (Assisted Congo for a power transform), and the Genocide in Congo assisted Rwanda for an economy change.
You should all agree? But The Genociders in Rwanda are coming to justice and they are being sentenced, however the genociders in Congo have never been even arrested.
Check out the differences...

Swhaliland

blaise said...

@ Bismark,
That's a great question. I have to confess that I never put a lot of thoughts about this anomaly until Rich pointed out that the region wasn't know for it agricultural inputs.
Not having any data to analyse, I will have to speculate that probably several factors contributes to that situation.
Colonial patterns are a strong possibility. I believe that Belgian Congo was efficiently run like an enterprise for the highest profit possible. Resources will come from the East and export by the West. Like you said, the soil and climatic conditions must have play an important role. I think the Kasai, because of it's central location was never intended to be a production's hub but more like an administrative "dispatcher".
Another possibility will be the cultural inheritance. As I pointed out, being rich it's a matter of interpretation. For some, it will be possessing lands. For other it will be having large crops. I believe in the East, sign of richness was link to cattle while in the Kasai, I don't exactly know what was the measure.
But it's a good matter for thinking.

Rich said...

Bismark –

I think Eric Tollens' (2004) report will be a good starting point. The paper gives a nice overview of the agricultural situation in the DRC since it is based on the works of a round table organised in Kinshasa in March 2003 to look at strategies that will enable the DRC’s agricultural sector to become the engine of the economy…
Looking at the map of the DRC, North East is more Province orientale than anything else but if you mean the whole grand Kivu and Province orientale maybe we can say the area is very populated but I will not go as far as to saying population density in this part of the DRC is somehow higher than in any other part of the DRC. To have a better picture of population density I think one will need to consider the amount of habitable land (terrain climate etc…) and the population stock living in that particular area.

6 million excess death is not the correct figure if you are referring to the IRC report and even if we take the 5 million excess death due to the conflict between (1998 to 2007) as presented by IRC, some have argued that the IRC method was not as efficient as it seems and that the figure could have been much lower than the one found by the IRC but I guess people have no other choice than to go with the IRC figure since there is no other estimation out there…

As Blaise said, there are many factors in explaining agricultural trends in DRC mainly because there are so many influences that may have affected the development of the agricultural sector. Here you have the ancestral heritage in terms of food production; you have the colonial orientation, the post-colonial and the current adaptation as guided by climatic conditions and prominent economic realities.

As you can see there may not be a simple answer to this but the reality is that some parts of the DRC are more inclined to agricultural activities than others and because there is no reliable dataset to assess the differentials I drew from my numerous travels around the DRC and from my own personal experience of going to markets and asking about the origins of different products I consumed. In that way it was easy for me to have some ideas of the prevalence of food production activities in various parts of the DRC.

Eric Tollens paper gives some interesting statistics though… I can get you a link to the article when I will use my home computer…

Rich

Anonymous said...

Thanks Blaise for your input as we attempt to learn from each other's experience.

Bismark

Anonymous said...

Thanks to Rich for your input, I will try to find the report you are talking about and get more informed.

Bismark

Rich said...

Who said Eric Joyce was an angel?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/labour_mp_eric_joyce_accused_of_attacking_tory_mp_in_commons_bar_brawl_1_2133282

Rich

Ben said...

Dilla @ Goma stated: "After the accident the pilots were alive but seriously injured, it seems that they have been killed by unidentified man on the spot."

I was just wondering if you were a witness, or where you heard this information from? Thank you for your help.

blaise said...

Le potentiel wrote that it was weird that the government, not the CENI, declared that unless the international community contributed 53 % of the budget for the next elections, there is a chance that they will be cancel.
I don't think it's so weird since the government run more or less the CENI and has not a lot of interests to have more elected officials. Imagine how convenient the president can pick any governors ( since he already has the power to dismiss them), choose any local official he wishes and even more not to deal with provincial assemblies. The later prove to be an extraordinary adversary to an autocratic power since it's hard to align all the provinces to a monolithic ideology. I still can't figure out the real reason Lumanu blocked the north kivu's assembly. I also wondered if he had the power to do so. It's seems to me there should be some kind of separation of power here. I don't understand how the executive has the power over the legislative here. thoughts?

Stephan said...

Does anyone know if there is an investigation going into the cause of this accident? It seems very strange that the cause of the accident was determinted to be pilot error so quickly after the accident, and that it must have been these pilot's first time at Bakuvu. Gulfstream pilots don't get to fly a G IV with the notion that they might blow landings. To sit behind the controls of a GIV means you have logged in thousands and thousands of hours to make sure you never blow a landing. It is a prestegious level of being a pilot, and these were both very experienced pilots. Something stinks here. The accident also looks very survivable for everyone in the plane, and I don't buy the idea that Mwanke was merely unbuckled from his seatbelt. Does anyone have any ideas of what really happened here?

Anonymous said...

Hi Jason...
Since the death of Katumba, you have not posted any thing - I hope you are not affected because of his death.
Please give us some more topics - a lot is taking place....

Anonymous said...

Stephan, You are 100% correct. Being an experienced Gulfstream driver, I find it hard to believe that that level of experienced pilots would have not opted to go-around after landing half-way down the runway. Bottom line, if a CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) was onboard and operating it seems like that would solve any questions...

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K said...

I knew this pilot very well . . . I can tell you, there is absolutely, no way, he over-shot this landing!!!

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